Biden administration wants to standardize electric vehicle charging, like gas stations

[Mockingbird]

The broader point the poster was making is that people are able to and do buy different ICEVs that require different fuels that you might not be able to get at every gas station. I once went to a "gas" station in New Brunswick that only sold diesel and had to drive a mile down the road to another one that only sold gas.

People care so little about it, that even the article quote forgot about the different nozzles and made a factually incorrect statement.
And the tiresome "All cars should use the same plug" argument forgets about it.

All we actually need is good charging networks. Yes, a single standard would make it easier to get to that point, but no it's not necessary as the diesel v regular v premium at gas stations shows. Currently the best charging is at Tesla's network because the core principles were built right from the start:
- Multiple chargers per location
- Fast
- "Plug and charge", no need for a smartphone or card to operate it.
The one gap is that is there's no credit card reading, but that's because it Tesla -> account -> credit card, which is built into their system.



And that's the key point for this. It's been adopted as the standard, but the government isn't dictating what individual companies can do. All that they're doing is setting _minimum_ requirements for _taxpayer-funded_ chargers. Basically don't require an account, and include a CCS plug and you can get some money (and for main highway chargers they want 4+ 150kW+ plugs).

Tesla has done dual cable before, so if they want Federal money the challenge is just account-free use.

Well, fortunately, most consumer EVs that are on the market today use the same type of electricity, so there is no need to have different charging stations to provide different types of electricity.

 

[Mockingbird]

Yes, like that, except where the rate per kwh is reasonably close to the local rate, not triple the local rate.

Fast charging is expensive because of demand charges.

No way is it going to be close to the rate of charging at home.

 

[Mockingbird]

Sure. Standardization is one thing but implementation is another. It's all over the place in the US: Some with ChaDeMo, some with J1772, some with Tesla, some with CCS...

I guess it's not the standardization but the law that enforces that standard.

CHAdeMO is on its last legs.

Even Nissan is ditching CHAdeMO for CCS.

J-1772 is for level 2 charging, so I am not sure what your argument is.

 

[Mockingbird]

Currently, the Fast-DC-equipped cars on the roads in the US are Tesla.

The CCS adapter has those vehicles covered.

That means that CCS works with everything except CHAdeMO vehicles.

 

[theothertom]

Even Nissan is ditching CHAdeMO for CCS.

True for North America, but not for Japan.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

CHAdeMO is on its last legs.

Even Nissan is ditching CHAdeMO for CCS.

J-1772 is for level 2 charging, so I am not sure what your argument is.

A J-1772 EVSE has another different cable and plug.

 

[Mockingbird]

True for North America, but not for Japan.

Okay, but we'll keep this thread limited to the United States (and maybe North America).

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Well, fortunately, most consumer EVs that are on the market today use the same type of electricity, so there is no need to have different charging stations to provide different types of electricity.

No need to have diesel vehicles, and regular gasoline vehicles, and premium gasoline vehicles. And yet here we are with 2 different fuel nozzles and gas stations with 3 buried fuel tanks, receiving 3 different deliveries, and nobody cares.

 

[Mockingbird]

A J-1772 EVSE has another different cable and plug.

I am not sure what your point is.

CCS1 is just J-1772 + DC

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

CHAdeMO is on its last legs.

Even Nissan is ditching CHAdeMO for CCS.

J-1772 is for level 2 charging, so I am not sure what your argument is.

To be fair, they weren't given much choice. Electrify America were allowed to build single CHAdeMO chargers, even though every EV owner hates that.

 

[Mockingbird]

No need to have diesel vehicles, and regular gasoline vehicles, and premium gasoline vehicles. And yet here we are with 2 different fuel nozzles and gas stations with 3 buried fuel tanks, receiving 3 different deliveries, and nobody cares.

....and what's your point?

Are you saying that there are consumer EVs that run on different types of electricity?

 

[Mockingbird]

To be fair, they weren't given much choice. Electrify America were allowed to build single CHAdeMO chargers, even though every EV owner hates that.

...and what is your evidence for "every EV owner hates that"?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I am not sure what your point is.

CCS1 is just J-1772 + DC

Manufacturers have to make a different cable and plug. But it's apparently dumb to have different cables and plugs, as it would be impossible to support a comprehensive charging network with sales of only 4.375M EVs per year.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

...and what is your evidence for "every EV owner hates that"?

You're right. I made an assumption.

I believe that most EV owners don't like it when there is 1 charger at a location because the chances of either being unable to charge at the location due to failure, or having to wait at the location are increased. I've not met an EV owner who thinks that single chargers are dependable.

In fact, on my last trip beyond range in my Kona I was at a location where a single charger failed and the owner had to try to find another location.

 

[Mockingbird]

Manufacturers have to make a different cable and plug. But it's apparently dumb to have different cables and plugs, as it would be impossible to support a comprehensive charging network with sales of only 4.375M EVs per year.

Now, you are just complaining solely for the sake of complaining.

Your argument is getting ridiculous.

Hardly anyone expects a liquid-cooled CCS cable delivering 350 kW to be the same as a J-1772 cable delivering 19.2 kW.

 

[lynyrdM]

...and what is your evidence for "every EV owner hates that"?

Every Leaf owner certainly hated that. I can’t believe Nissan is still selling the Leaf with Chademo. They should be required to make a CCS adapter as well.

Regardless, the plug debate is now settled. With today’s release, the language in the rule says CCS type 1 and/or J1772 shall be required at every station and they shall support ISO Plug and Charge.

I’m a little salty about that last part because I think Autocharge is superior given how much quicker it negotiates but the matter is settled.

Edit: since I didn’t see it in the OP here is the link to the full text of the proposed rule

 

[Mockingbird]

You're right. I made an assumption.

I believe that most EV owners don't like it when there is 1 charger at a location because the chances of either being unable to charge at the location due to failure, or having to wait at the location are increased. I've not met an EV owner who thinks that single chargers are dependable.

In fact, on my last trip beyond range in my Kona I was at a location where a single charger failed and the owner had to try to find another location.

...and?

There are at least 7 CCS cables, so people who have CCS vehicles clearly don't "hate that".

Now, if you say that most Nissan Leaf's owners hate it, then you might be right, but that's not what you said.

 

[CyberGus]

I say we go USB

 

[ElectricIAC]

If B wants to make a difference, start throwing in some linked CPE250’s (200A not shared, 156A shared) at every rest area in the nation and put them in free vend mode.

 

[Mockingbird]

If B wants to make a difference, start throwing in some linked CPE250’s (200A not shared, 156A shared) at every rest area in the nation and put them in free vend mode.

Electricity isn't free. Neither is the cost of maintaining the charging stations.