Big Brother Inside

[Kraken]

woah, paranoid much? If we're pointing predators, you're assuming it's the gov't. There are some fine rules the gov't has to follow with these. If the gov't wanted to violate those rules, they'd know the last time you sneezed, and they wouldn't need Teslas help to do so.

Your scenario suggests either a very unfortunate bit of chance that doesnt require the info from Tesla, or a very elaborate ruse that would require a very sophisticated professional with a lot of connections and time to set up this scenario. The amount of money you would have to have from a sale to make this a likely scenario (meaning to make the benefit worth the costs for those out to get you) would put you out of the range of the average user.

I agree you have the right to the privacy if your situation dictates/you want, and thus definitely the option to opt out is important. I'm just also saying that in most people's cases, the generic fear of having your info tracked is baseless and actually probably going to provide them less options in the future for no reason. There is some info that definitely should be guarded by any/everyone... this info is harmless, along with most other info. Speaking of all this, most of the stuff Tesla posted was just car performance info.

Again, for specific certain people, there might be a risk, but for most it's just an unnecessary fear.

 

[steve841]

woah, paranoid much? If we're pointing predators, you're assuming it's the gov't. There are some fine rules the gov't has to follow with these. If the gov't wanted to violate those rules, they'd know the last time you sneezed, and they wouldn't need Teslas help to do so.

Your scenario suggests either a very unfortunate bit of chance that doesnt require the info from Tesla, or a very elaborate ruse that would require a very sophisticated professional with a lot of connections and time to set up this scenario. The amount of money you would have to have from a sale to make this a likely scenario (meaning to make the benefit worth the costs for those out to get you) would put you out of the range of the average user.

I agree you have the right to the privacy if your situation dictates/you want, and thus definitely the option to opt out is important. I'm just also saying that in most people's cases, the generic fear of having your info tracked is baseless and actually probably going to provide them less options in the future for no reason. There is some info that definitely should be guarded by any/everyone... this info is harmless, along with most other info. Speaking of all this, most of the stuff Tesla posted was just car performance info.

Again, for specific certain people, there might be a risk, but for most it's just an unnecessary fear.

Paranoid ... you bet! Distrust of the government ... ABSOLUTELY!

Any cop with a tag# alone can get a VIN, call in OnStar et al and have that vehicle's location provided to them.

A recent episode here in FL had a trooper stop and arrest at gunpoint a city cop for speeding .... turns out that trooper was harassed by other municipalities' law enforcement officers because several HUNDRED of them accessed her personal information through the state's ID system.

Always be skeptical of intentions. Always!!!

 

[EchoDelta]

woah, paranoid much? If we're pointing predators, you're assuming it's the gov't. There are some fine rules the gov't has to follow with these.

Totally off topic: Yes and no; I think he meant 'predator' as a general category brand not a specific capability. Agree that particular scenario is farfetched. You can buy and then fly many sort of unmanned drones without pushing the FAA envelope. These are private sector toys now. Even aerovironment, the EV charger manufacturer has a division dedicated to them (Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) - AeroVironment, Inc.).

- - - Updated - - -

It's a pity the opt-in/out is part of an agreement with a bureaucratic process up front, versus an on-off switch.
I believe the process to opt-out instantly, and optionally retroactively ('nuke all my data now' button), is good design when dealing with data that folks may consider sensitive to privacy. I hope Tesla considers this.

Unfortunately I've been in situations where tracking was a safety concern for me and others. The 'why would you worry if you abide by the law' argument is a circular one (http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question) based on the assumption of infinitely benevolent and competent entities doing the surveillance for all time.

All this being said, I will leave the tracking on for my car as I believe it can help Tesla design a better product and it doesn't add significantly to the pool of data about me already available to those with the right positions or skillsets.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Guys guys guys - big news! Different people have different views on privacy! Shocker! I don't think anyone here needs to (or will be successful) in changing anyone else's viewpoint in this topic. And that's ok. Tesla already figured that out and so gives everyone two options before they take delivery of the car. So can we drop it?

And at least Tesla's upfront about it. Darn near every car made these days has similar capability, it's just not well advertised or utilized in a way that's visible to the owner so most people remain blissfully unaware.

Tesla could just as well call the options the blue pill (opt-out) and the red pill (opt-in).

 

[jerry33]

The more information someone can get on you, the easier identity theft becomes (think about the security questions on financial sites--most of them are easily guessed if some homework is done). Data gets stolen all the time as most places don't have particularly good security and some that do spend a lot of effort in areas where it becomes busy-work rather than actual security improvements. Once a real data criminal gets a source of information, they milk it for all it's worth--but not on the site where they are getting the data.

 

[mattjn]

The whole "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" argument gets my goat every time. Just because you are a law abiding person, you shouldn't care about all the ways that corporations and the government can track you? The way this country is headed, I could see mandatory gps implants within the lifetime of children alive currently and everyone would be okay with that. Way too much public information out there and people don't care.

 

[gray]

The more information someone can get on you, the easier identity theft becomes (think about the security questions on financial sites--most of them are easily guessed if some homework is done). Data gets stolen all the time as most places don't have particularly good security and some that do spend a lot of effort in areas where it becomes busy-work rather than actual security improvements. Once a real data criminal gets a source of information, they milk it for all it's worth--but not on the site where they are getting the data.

That's what I'm kind of surprised about - I'd gather that most Model S owners are rather well to do. I should give credit to an acquaintance who pointed out that having location tracking would enable thieves to view your previous movements to know exactly when to break into your house. They don't even necessarily need super technical skills to get this data - I keep on hearing about software packages that are designed for criminals with as-yet unknown security holes programmed in to be exploited at the press of a button.

 

[steve841]

Between political campaigns, google, marketing companies, government agencies, they know more about you then any of us would ever realize or appreciate (literally).

 

[vfx]

The Roadster owners went through this too. There is a thread on it. The old what if you committed a crime in your Tesla and the Authorities subpoena your GPS data? TBMK this was never done but they did find at least one stolen R. There was also one the was a stolen one missing for over a year so it's not a perfect system.

 

[Electric Machete]

Does anyone know of a real world example where the kind of data Tesla is gathering has been used to perpetrate a crime against an individual? Has it ever happened or is there just theoretical concern?

I would think GPS data would likely serve to exonerate me from a crime rather than make me a victim of one. Perhaps I am being naive. Anyone out there in law enforcement who can comment?