Big electric trucks and SUVs are the new gas guzzlers

[voyager]

Miles per gallon is a consistent measure of a car’s carbon emissions. Burning a gallon of gasoline will always release about 8,887 grams of carbon dioxide, according to the US Environmental Protection Agency.

But MPGe is a fuzzier measure of a car’s carbon footprint, because generating a kilowatt-hour of electricity will create different levels of carbon emissions depending on the mix of fuel sources a power utility uses. Globally, producing a kilowatt-hour of electricity emits an average of 475 grams of carbon dioxide, but the figure varies widely from region to region.

Big electric trucks and SUVs are the new gas guzzlers

New EV models like Tesla’s Cybertruck, Ford’s F-150 Lightning, Rivian’s R1T pickup truck, and GM’s Hummer EV can produce carbon emissions comparable to some gas-powered cars and hybrids.

qz.com

 

[voyager]

For Europe the whole energy thing has just gotten a bit more existentialist...

 

[nwdiver]

Globally, producing a kilowatt-hour of electricity emits an average of 475 grams of carbon dioxide, but the figure varies widely from region to region.

Big electric trucks and SUVs are the new gas guzzlers

New EV models like Tesla’s Cybertruck, Ford’s F-150 Lightning, Rivian’s R1T pickup truck, and GM’s Hummer EV can produce carbon emissions comparable to some gas-powered cars and hybrids.

qz.com

Varies even more hour to hour. 475g/kWh is 'grid-mix' but EVs don't use 'grid-mix'. You can plug-in when you get home and let the grid operator decided when you get the ~10kWh you need before 7am. Good chance it's 10kWh of wind energy that would have just been wasted due to curtailment. 10kWh of reduced curtailment has the same emissions as 100kWh of reduced curtailment. 0.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

And the average is trending down, although as nwdiver notes, there's a timing issue.

It's more of a challenge in areas dependent on solar than in areas more dependent on wind, because of the natural timing of charging. Fast charging meshes well with solar, but home charging meshes well with wind. Hence the windy UK's broad support for EVs and proactive measures to push people to charge at night.

 

[MontyFloyd]

Fast charging meshes well with solar, but home charging meshes well with wind.

Unless people can charge at work (assuming person works during optimal daylight hours)

 

[voyager]

People always give me the "I recharge my EV by using my own solar panels".
1. 60-80 percent of the electricity in countries is still being generated by burning fossils
2. Why waste energy? An electric SUV weighs 25-40 as much as the usually single occupant
3. There is also the precious materials needed for battery production issue...

There Aren’t Enough Batteries in the World to Power Our Huge Cars

Someone help me budget this, my environment is dying.

www.vice.com

 

[h2ofun]

People always give me the "I recharge my EV by using my own solar panels".
1. 60-80 percent of the electricity in countries is still being generated by burning fossils
2. Why waste energy? An electric SUV weighs 25-40 as much as the usually single occupant
3. There is also the precious materials needed for battery production issue...

There Aren’t Enough Batteries in the World to Power Our Huge Cars

Someone help me budget this, my environment is dying.

www.vice.com

Yep, EV's are FAR from green if you look at the TOTAL supply chain. And to think using rare earth materials, which destroy the earth getting, is going to work long term, I will be long gone, but no way. Who know what the answer is, but this EV push is just a big joke.

 

[MontyFloyd]

People always give me the "I recharge my EV by using my own solar panels".
1. 60-80 percent of the electricity in countries is still being generated by burning fossils
2. Why waste energy? An electric SUV weighs 25-40 as much as the usually single occupant
3. There is also the precious materials needed for battery production issue...

There Aren’t Enough Batteries in the World to Power Our Huge Cars

Someone help me budget this, my environment is dying.

www.vice.com

America has the love affair with big... stuff. Agree there needs to be belt tightening with size.

Yep, EV's are FAR from green if you look at the TOTAL supply chain. And to think using rare earth materials, which destroy the earth getting, is going to work long term, I will be long gone, but no way. Who know what the answer is, but this EV push is just a big joke.

Yes, not green, but greener than gas.
Fuel cars are a lifetime of drilling and then all that work of refining, transportation, and storage. Some of those machines require rare earth metals too.

How many will be convinced to drive this?

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

aptera.us

Before people say no, consider this (seen quite a few of them here)

Slingshot: Open-Air Roadster - 3 Wheel Motorcycle | Polaris

The Slingshot three-wheeled motorcycle is unlike anything else on the road. Take the wheel and let it set you loose in ways you'd never imagine.

slingshot.polaris.com

 

[mangrove79]

Yep, EV's are FAR from green if you look at the TOTAL supply chain. And to think using rare earth materials, which destroy the earth getting, is going to work long term, I will be long gone, but no way. Who know what the answer is, but this EV push is just a big joke.

If your definition of "green" is carbon-neutral, or some similar measurement, sure. The total supply chain for EV production is far from carbon-neutral, but why should it. Your argument reminds me of people who simply argue for the sake of argument, not for actual merits or logic. Some people want to build the 100th floor without building the first 99. Despite the lack of common sense or logic, they would still argue that let's go straight to building the 100th floor.

Battery technology is literally revolutionizing on a daily basis. In addition to the traditional Li-ion batteries, you have solid-state, LFP, and Sodium-ion, etc. Is there really any doubt that in a decade's time, there may not be a need to mine some of the super rare metals like Cobalt, as far as EVs are concerned? I'm the farthest thing from a battery expert, but at least I can tell a trend when I read enough about it.

I wonder if this EV push is a big joke, what in your mind is a solution that this world might be willing to accept. Please not something that only 10% would adopt.

 

[h2ofun]

If your definition of "green" is carbon-neutral, or some similar measurement, sure. The total supply chain for EV production is far from carbon-neutral, but why should it. Your argument reminds me of people who simply argue for the sake of argument, not for actual merits or logic. Some people want to build the 100th floor without building the first 99. Despite the lack of common sense or logic, they would still argue that let's go straight to building the 100th floor.

Battery technology is literally revolutionizing on a daily basis. In addition to the traditional Li-ion batteries, you have solid-state, LFP, and Sodium-ion, etc. Is there really any doubt that in a decade's time, there may not be a need to mine some of the super rare metals like Cobalt, as far as EVs are concerned? I'm the farthest thing from a battery expert, but at least I can tell a trend when I read enough about it.

I wonder if this EV push is a big joke, what in your mind is a solution that this world might be willing to accept. Please not something that only 10% would adopt.

No idea what the right answer is. Do you read the articles of how some of this is gotten. Strip mining. Kid labor. No way enough.

IMO, at least PHEV's make a lot of practical sense.

 

[voyager]

America has the love affair with big... stuff. Agree there needs to be belt tightening with size.

I am convinced that what comes next in electro-mobility is smaller, sleeker cars, and that people can be
tempted as long as the 'EV 2.0' (or post-Tesla) offers an interestingly new and appealing proposition.
No need to convince everybody, no need to convince even 999 out of a 1000 new car buyers (around
90 million cars are sold globally). Just implement Tesla's proven 'early adopter' strategy.

Let's not forget that Tesla started out in the country that has a love affair with the V8 too, where
travel distances tend to be bigger than they are in EU countries (which adds to the range anxiety)
and gasoline prices are less than half of those in the EU and where the grid is 110 volt (EU 220 volt).

There are also the aspects of livability and safety to observe. 95% of the cars are wider than the average person is tall.

New study suggests today’s SUVs are more lethal to pedestrians than cars

SUVs, which make up an increasingly large share of the vehicle fleet, are more likely to kill pedestrians than cars. Fresh designs haven't changed that.

www.iihs.org

 

[MontyFloyd]

I am convinced that what comes next in electro-mobility is smaller, sleeker cars, and that people can be
tempted as long as the 'EV 2.0' (or post-Tesla) offers an interestingly new and appealing proposition.
No need to convince everybody, no need to convince even 999 out of a 1000 new car buyers (around
90 million cars are sold globally). Just implement Tesla's proven 'early adopter' strategy.

Let's not forget that Tesla started out in the country that has a love affair with the V8 too, where
travel distances tend to be bigger than they are in EU countries (which adds to the range anxiety)
and gasoline prices are less than half of those in the EU

Cars have been an expression of wealth and power.
Tesla's being more expensive AND better performance appeals to that same. Model S Plaid is the new muscle car, and with a premium price (honestly I think should be sold for more than $200k. Would not make a dent in sales)

East coast and the old west coast cities were built for mass transit and would be easy to improve. Many others would be a harder, some .

and where the grid is 110 volt (EU 220 volt).

Little secret: US grid is actually 240 volt (electric ovens, ranges, dryers, AC, all 240v).
Amp ranges in world vary, I think all top out at 16 amps

There are also the aspects of livability and safety to observe. 95% of the cars are wider than the average person is tall.

New study suggests today’s SUVs are more lethal to pedestrians than cars

SUVs, which make up an increasingly large share of the vehicle fleet, are more likely to kill pedestrians than cars. Fresh designs haven't changed that.

www.iihs.org

Nice graph!
If the bike had cooling system, will work in south states!


What is needed is a smaller car, 2 seater, except that will need insurance not to charge the "sports car" premium.

 

[15Peter20]

No idea what the right answer is. Do you read the articles of how some of this is gotten. Strip mining. Kid labor. No way enough.

IMO, at least PHEV's make a lot of practical sense.

Kid labour? Tell me more.

 

[voyager]

Cars have been an expression of wealth and power.

What is needed is a smaller car, 2 seater, except that will need insurance not to charge the "sports car" premium.

That's why I stated that just 1 in 900-1000 needs to be attracted. It is how Tesla started out.
Remember the many scepsis from the car media?

Just come up with a sleek (low-drag), lightweight car which is NOT a performance vehicle.
Don't come up with the proverbial, tiny hatchaback! Bring something different. New requirements and
possibilities (self-driving a.o.) challenge us to rethink and reformat the car... without compromising, even improve safety!

 

[h2ofun]

Kid labour? Tell me more.

Exposed: Child labour behind smart phone and electric car batteries

Major electronics brands, including Apple, Samsung and Sony, are failing to do basic checks to ensure that cobalt mined by child labourers has not been used in their products, said Amnesty International and Afrewatch in a report published today.

www.amnesty.org

 

[15Peter20]

Exposed: Child labour behind smart phone and electric car batteries

Major electronics brands, including Apple, Samsung and Sony, are failing to do basic checks to ensure that cobalt mined by child labourers has not been used in their products, said Amnesty International and Afrewatch in a report published today.

www.amnesty.org

You do know that most cobalt is used to refine fossil fuels don’t you? Once fossil fuels are gone that cobalt can go into EV batteries. Except that reducing EV battery dependency on cobalt is being actively pursued?

Correction: battery usage of cobalt is now the majority of cobalt usage driven by huge increase in battery requirements, but the point remains that a huge proportion of all cobalt has been used, and is still used, in desulphurisation of vehicle fuels.

 

[h2ofun]

You do know that most cobalt is used to refine fossil fuels don’t you? Once fossil fuels are gone that cobalt can go into EV batteries. Except that reducing EV battery dependency on cobalt is being actively pursued?

Correction: battery usage of cobalt is now the majority of cobalt usage driven by huge increase in battery requirements, but the point remains that a huge proportion of all cobalt has been used, and is still used, in desulphurisation of vehicle fuels.

You asked, I gave an answer, it is NOT zero

 

[Lloyd]

Miles per gallon is a consistent measure of a car’s carbon emissions. Burning a gallon of gasoline will always release about 8,887 grams of carbon dioxide, according to the US Environmental Protection Agency.

But MPGe is a fuzzier measure of a car’s carbon footprint, because generating a kilowatt-hour of electricity will create different levels of carbon emissions depending on the mix of fuel sources a power utility uses. Globally, producing a kilowatt-hour of electricity emits an average of 475 grams of carbon dioxide, but the figure varies widely from region to region.

Big electric trucks and SUVs are the new gas guzzlers

New EV models like Tesla’s Cybertruck, Ford’s F-150 Lightning, Rivian’s R1T pickup truck, and GM’s Hummer EV can produce carbon emissions comparable to some gas-powered cars and hybrids.

qz.com

Add more solar if you need a bigger car! If you make more electrons than you use, what does it matter anymore??

 

[voyager]

Add more solar if you need a bigger car! If you make more electrons than you use, what does it matter anymore??

There are two ways of looking at energy: 1. the way it is produced, and 2. the way it is used.
It will take a long time before renewables will take over from burning fossils for generating electricity.
Able to use your own solar panels, well good for you. Not everyone can.

My point is: why waste energy if this also handicaps our ability to go from A to B?

 

[MontyFloyd]

My point is: why waste energy if this also handicaps our ability to go from A to B?

I hear ya brother!

One thing Tesla is doing right is making cars lighter than industry average.
Efficiency is job 1, and it shows.