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Big Oil Strikes Again: New Taxes on Electric Vehicles

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by NerdUno, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. RichardD

    RichardD Supporting Member

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    Lucky Texas has already struck it down. I do wish we had some incentives though:
    • reduced tax on purchase
    • EV can ride in the HOV lane
    • reimbursement for HPWC
    All things considering its troubling seeing some of the posts that our members have shared where they reached out to their State Representative.
     
  2. James Anders

    James Anders Member

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    #3 James Anders, Feb 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    I just love how they try to blame "big oil" without evidence. Come on... It's big state governments looking not to lose revenue.

    Koch Brothers? Please.

    A perfect example of "fake news" to push a political narrative and to shape the discussion.
     
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  3. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    Big oil strikes again? My state taxes the snot out of Chevron and they'll tax the snot out of EV drivers eventually too. It's a stretch to say big oil is driving this, when it's more likely to be state spending needs revenue to support its habits.
     
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  4. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    In California, the attempts to tax EVs have been purely budgetary. We have literally dozens of taxes, perhaps as many as 100. Some are called fees, some are called programs, some are called projects, some are called registrations, etc.

    They know the typical EV owner is more affluent than the ICE drivers. So they don't think they will mind.

    EVs drive about 1/2 the miles of ICE cars in the USA: Appendix A: Evidence Used to Define Average Annual Mileage for the Different PEV Categories - Electric Vehicle (EV) Deployment - Publications - Energy - Sustainability - Environment - FHWA
     
  5. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    Look for the new road charge fee in California once the pilot program is completed. I understand that the revenue from gas tax is down and I do not mind paying for my fair share to keep the roads maintained. The problem in the past has been that money collected has not gone to maintain the roads, if you drive in California you know that is true.
     
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  6. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    • Funny x 1
  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Add the tax to all vehicles, not just EVs. That way everybody gets ripped off equally.
     
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  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    When a group of states put forward similarly worded bills it means one of two things:

    1. The states are copying another state
    2. A lobby group has written the bill and found sponsors
     
  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Explain California. The 'lobby group' here is the Public Employee Unions. Nobody else comes close. Oil lobbying has failed consistently in California. Even movie stars have more pull here than Exxon.
     
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  10. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    This is for all vehicles, but again will the gas tax go away when the road charge fee starts. I would also like for the state to create a separate road maintenance fund that can only be used for road maintenance. There is lots of money being collected right now from the gas tax but it goes into the transportation fund and it becomes a money grab. If you call our county and ask them to repair a road they will tell you they do not have sufficient funds to be able to do a proper repair.
     
  11. RichardD

    RichardD Supporting Member

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    Considering Texas struck it down for now..

    But we can't gain any traction with EV's or solar in Texas either. I would think Texas Gulf coast would be great for small wind turbines, or solar; however, we can't get any kind of incentive to do it. To compound matters most of our neighborhood HOA's have power to stop us from installing any alternative energy.
     
  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Every time we Californians create a new tax (or the Name of the Week for a tax), they say it can only be used for the purpose claimed based on unbreakable law. Then they break it. :D
     
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  13. ThisIsTrue

    ThisIsTrue Member

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    It notes that Colorado is one of the states that have "attacked" EV drivers with a tax. IIRC, ours is $50/year. Here's how they "attack" us: first, we get a SIX THOUSAND dollar incentive to buy an EV -- and that's on top of the federal $7,500. So what's the $50 for? So the state has a pool of money to give grants to towns to put in free EV chargers to benefit all of us. My town just got one, and they plan to have it in place before the end of the year, so EV drivers aren't afraid to come to this rural area.

    Some attack.

    Yes, some states are absolutely attacking, maybe backed by "big oil". But not every tax is punitive.
     
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  14. TexLaw

    TexLaw Member

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    I don't care for that article, either. I'm confident that there is some hostility, trepidation, fear, and loathing out there about EVs, but "Big Oil" isn't behind a lot of it. The auto industry is behind it more than anyone else, along with a lot of folks that just don't like change. Really, it's the latter that's the problem.

    Now, I wouldn't say that Big Oil is helping things along, but they've also seen the writing on the wall. They are working their tails off to get ahead in alternative energy, knowing full well that's where the future is.

    Shoot, that's going on even in Texas. Texas produces more wind power than any other state (at around 18.5 gW/yr), and it's expanding.

    Roads are a problem, though, and a big one. The road money comes from gasoline taxes. Those revenues have gone down a great deal, and they likely will continue to. No, a "road fee" or whatever you want to call it is not punitive. It's price we pay for using the roads. The gas tax was a convenient method for collecting those funds, but the times are a-changing.
     
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  15. mediocreguy

    mediocreguy Member

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    I agree with most here - state governments are looking to recoup tax revenue from perceived lost gas sales to PEVs - not Big Oil. I can understand that and don't mind a fair tax. But, in Georgia, the flat tax of $200/year does not seem fair in some respects.

    For an equivalent gas tax of $200 / year in an ICE vehicle, say driving 15,000 miles / year, your vehicle would have to get about 23 miles/gallon ($200.00 / 0.312/gal = 641 gal; 15000 / 641 = 23.4 mpg) - I guess that's an OK average. However, if I drive a Prius at 50 mpg, I'm only going to pay about $94 / year in gas tax (15000 / 50mpg = 300 gal * 0.312 = $93.60). A plug-in Prius Prime would pay even less if the plugin range is frequently used - plug-in hybrids do not pay the fee in Georgia. I guess I would feel better if the PEV tax was tied to some sort of rating and/or mileage rather than just a flat fee.

    The debate will have to continue - there will be more and more PEVs vs. ICE on the road in the coming years - adjustments will have to be made from time to time in order to fund state (and federal) transportation budgets.
     
  16. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Houses need roads, businesses need roads, governments need roads. This is regardless of whether you own a car.

    The fuel tax concept was always silly. The number of cars, distances driven, MPG, and price of gas are highly variable. Real estate is less variable. You cannot make more of it.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Now five thousand, but you point is well taken.

    I view Colorado as having a right hand, left hand approach. The people in charge of road maintenance want money from EVs. Another lobby pushes for EV adoption. It is part and parcel of entities having separate budgets and priorities even though they all fall under the government umbrella.

    By the way, where do you live ?
    The only public charger in my town is at my home ;-)
     
  18. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    #19 dgpcolorado, Feb 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    One clarification: The Colorado $50 per year plug-in car fee is $30 for roads and $20 for the charge station grant fund (last time I checked the wording of the law). I was pleased to see that $50 fee appear on my registration a couple of years ago because I do want to help pay for roads as well as the public charge stations that I have been using. In the future, I think some sort of mileage and weight-based road tax will be necessary to replace the gas tax for roads.

    The town nearest us is tiny Ridgway, population about 1000, which is where the new public L2 charge station is being installed — joining those at Montrose, Mountain Village and Ouray (currently closed until May during the Hot Springs Pool reconstruction). More than four years ago I lobbied Ridgway to install a charge station but was unsuccessful (although they did allow me to use a town 14-50 outlet, which was reachable with an extension cord). Now, after an extensive refurbishment and paving of the downtown business district, the time was right for a public charge station. I did advise them to place it in a less-than-prime parking location to avoid ICEing, which they have chosen to do.
     
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  19. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    California relies upon income taxes and sales taxes for most of its revenues. I am not sure of the percentages, but I would hazard a guess that those two comprise close to 70% of all funds received statewide, perhaps more. Income taxes rise and fall with the boom or bust cycles of our state. When businesses are thriving and investors realize capital gains on sales of assets, income tax revenue skyrockets. When the offal hits the proverbial fan, income tax receipts plummet. However, the sales tax more or less chugs along because it is regressive. It affects the rich and poor. Sales tax is charged on all sales of tangible personal property with exceptions for food and prescription drugs, by and large. Poor people need toilet tissue and toothpaste and clothes too.

    California assesses sales tax on the retail price of fuel, including all fuel taxes. California does not assess sales tax upon utilities. When the massive shift from buying gasoline and diesel that are subject to sales taxes moves to electricity, the resultant loss of sales tax revenue will be a substantial amount.

    Finally, California's sales tax structure is split into the statewide piece and a local piece. The BOE redistributes the local piece to the city or county where the sales were transacted. So, there will be a trickle-down effect on sales tax receipts as the population moves to refueling with electricity instead of fossil fuels.
     

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