Just got some at ~18,800 and put it in a wallet for a long time. Will buy more as I like buying 10% of what my total investment will be.
Have a happy day.
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Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crowded Mind
- Start date
Have a happy day.
Btc is worthless on many levels.
FOMO is not an investment thesis but it is a compelling basis for a scam.
As a currency it fails. Deflationary.
The “distributed network“ has already demonstrated it can and does fail when the bills are not paid. The ever growing burden of computing expenses must eventually crush any use.
It is home to fraudsters for good reason.
It foists a flawed understanding of economics where inflation is a fault rather than the benefit it actually is. If anyone thinks inflation is to be avoided then they have already demonstrated their lack of understanding. Anti-inflation based scams seem to be ever with us unfortunately.
Lack of central authority invites fraudsters.
The ever expanding basket of patches and work-arounds invites ever more complexity and fragility.
It violates the central theme for a growing future for humanity (permaculture) in that it has no yield other than FOMO.
One thing it is however is a near perfect scam selling a false narrative on inflation as the basis for FUD, FOMO and fueled by greed.
Is there a place for a digital currency probably backed by dollars and more, sure. StarLink will require a global approach to business unlike any. Twitter and Doge might be the beginning of something.
Tesla is a real investment.
FOMO is not an investment thesis but it is a compelling basis for a scam.
As a currency it fails. Deflationary.
The “distributed network“ has already demonstrated it can and does fail when the bills are not paid. The ever growing burden of computing expenses must eventually crush any use.
It is home to fraudsters for good reason.
It foists a flawed understanding of economics where inflation is a fault rather than the benefit it actually is. If anyone thinks inflation is to be avoided then they have already demonstrated their lack of understanding. Anti-inflation based scams seem to be ever with us unfortunately.
Lack of central authority invites fraudsters.
The ever expanding basket of patches and work-arounds invites ever more complexity and fragility.
It violates the central theme for a growing future for humanity (permaculture) in that it has no yield other than FOMO.
One thing it is however is a near perfect scam selling a false narrative on inflation as the basis for FUD, FOMO and fueled by greed.
Is there a place for a digital currency probably backed by dollars and more, sure. StarLink will require a global approach to business unlike any. Twitter and Doge might be the beginning of something.
Tesla is a real investment.
Agreed.
Fundamentally Tesla uses energy to translate less useful things, into much more useful things that people will pay much more money for, the value add is very obvious.
My only real objections to crypto are it seems to use a lot of energy, and generate a lot of hot air and hype for the value that it adds. If crypto was more convenient, efficient and less volatile, it would have more appeal. By that I mean crypto being a full and total replacement for traditional banking offering all services provided by traditional banking with the similar trust and asset backing.
IMO Currencies are for transactional convivence, not investment, if my money parked in a currency, is to support about 1 months worth of transactions, and I don't want that currency fluctuating during the month.
It don't think traditional banks are that efficient, they seem to have high overheads, lots of fees and paperwork, so it seems to me a banking system based on efficient crypto could provide a better service, but crypto doesn't seem to be aiming for that target?
How do you see a transition from $0->$1/1337(first price of a bitcoin)->$20000 in 14 years could have happened with less volatility? It’s a fantasy. It had to be volatile and it is a good thing that it’s not designed to avoid volatility. As it has matured its volatility has gone down the organic way, not in an artificial unstable way that would have been the alternative. Invest in stable coins if you believe they are the future, but be warned they are not without their risks either.
Again I recommend all newcomers to Bitcoin to read this book. It’s great:
Amazon.com: Digital Gold: Bitcoin and the Inside Story of the Misfits and Millionaires Trying to Reinvent Money (Audible Audio Edition): Nathaniel Popper, Robert Fass, HarperAudio: Books
Amazon.com: Digital Gold: Bitcoin and the Inside Story of the Misfits and Millionaires Trying to Reinvent Money (Audible Audio Edition): Nathaniel Popper, Robert Fass, HarperAudio: Books
www.amazon.com
I suppose my confusion is the difference between a currency and an investment,
High volatility is a sign that the market is finding it hard to value an asset, the value seems to be "what people think it is worth".
We can't really point to asset backing, revenue streams, market share growth, profits or dividends for Bitcoin.
For Tesla, those of us who like to see hard numbers are happy.
As mentioned previously, in the case of fine art, if there is a painting by a fine artist, with solid providence and a long history of value appreciation, and it is also a painting the buyer happens to like, they are reasons to buy it, as opposed to some other painting.
But the bottom line is Bitcoin isn't my thing and will never be my thing, I don't really care what others think it is worth, if that apathy costs me the opportunity to make money, I don't care. But I'm not critical of those with an interest, and if they make money, they deserve it.
I would like to see crypto build a better alternative to the banking system, because that is something I would use.
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Investment
Store of value
Currency
All of these have different functions and different properties affects how good any asset is it any of these functions.
Currency ideally should be easily divisible and transferable.
Store of value ideally should remain close to its initial value over a timespan
Investment ideally should have a positive expected value over a time but often comes with some risk
Most prefer a currency that is a good store of value, which implies it has to be scarce. But imo as long as you can easily convert between a good store of value to a good currency, the currency doesn’t need to be a good store of value. But it doesn’t hurt and people are lazy to add another transaction so most of the non by decree currencies that have gained adoption seems to have been designed with store of value in mind. I see a future where I will buy a hamburger, take it from my shares of TSLA, sell 0.001TSLA and it gets converted to a general currency and the hamburger merchant can select which store of value he wants to convert it to, maybe he prefers AAPL or beers at the local bar. The currency in-between can be anything and neither me nor the seller really cares about the medium, just that we both get more/less of our respective preferred tokens at a market rate.
As early investors believed that cryptocurrency had the potential to replace fiat currency and in that case it would increase greatly in value, they deemed it to be a good investment. Some might call this speculation, but imo all investments are speculation and it‘s not a negatively loaded word for me.
This video explains it:
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While I trend to agree,
IMO the difference between investment and speculation is, research and established facts.
Even a well researched investment can go wrong, circumstances can change.
A speculative investment that is a split second whim can turn out great.
For real estate and the stock market, research can pay dividends, or at least increase the odds of success.
I think it also helps to invest or speculate in areas that interest you, even without doing formal research, knowledge is acquired, and that helps make better decisions.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
BTC now $20381. The dip didn't last long. The SEC won't have noticed the impairment right?
Right?
Right?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
I found it to be a very low quality thread with many non seq. Like these:
Maybe you can argue those selected statement by Elon Musk, but that was not very extensive arguments. But I guess twitter is not the best place to have debates. Like James said in his latest interview, debates are pretty lame. Better to just say your point of view, listen to the other point of view, then make up your own mind. Which is probably why FC removed the option to comment on his twitter thread. Which is fine.
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scubastevo80
Member
Not a fan of the I told you so post when all "growth" related investments are down 50%+. Bitcoin is a play on decentralized currency in the future, and the only crypto I would touch right now given its scale. You either believe it will become widely adopted or you don't (like the electric car thesis 10 years ago). Bitcoin is not a short-term bet or something for those that can't stomach volatility - and of course it is more volatile than holding "treasuries" but this is Elon and this is his way of mainstreaming things that are not widely adopted. I personally wouldn't have made the investment using TSLA's balance sheet, but I'm not running the company. Either way, it doesn't change my view on TSLA or GBTC as investments.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Celsius not doing too well these days
www.coindesk.com
Goldman Sachs Leading Investor Group to Buy Celsius Assets: Sources
The Wall Street firm is seeking $2 billion in commitments from investors to buy distressed assets at steep discounts if the crypto lender goes bankrupt.
Ouch.Bitcoin back at an all time high, and those holding it with Celsius have been collecting a juicy 6% interest rate during the whole ride
Also just wanna brag a bit here that I shilled Luna here as low as $5 earlier this year with the Terra ecosystem and now it's sitting at $40. Luna's going to $2000 easy over the next decade. And with crypto you can take that Luna and put it in yield generating protocols for an extra 40%+ APY. Glorious.
I also am working on some NFT projects right now for fun hahaha.
Happy to answer any crypto questions people might have
Xepa777
Banned
Yah so Celsius is perhaps wrecked.
The Goldman Sachs of crypto, Three Arrows, with over $3 billion, basically imploded.
Voyager, one of the largest crypto companies in Canada (and in the process of uplisting to Nasdaq), had $600 million+ exposure to Three Arrows and thus they also blew up (saved by Alameda because Alameda has 12% ownership of Voyager stock).
BlockFi got wrecked because of the GBTC arbitrage going sideways and their Three Arrows exposure.
Terra got hit with a short attack George-Soros style while its funds were being moved from 4pool to Curve. Spectacular blow-up.
It's wild. I thought this cycle was the one where enough institutions/sophisticated people would build the infrastructure/processes to resist downturns with proper risk management, but I guess I was wrong. Then again the level of shorting that's allowed in an unregulated crypto world is on a different level than the stock market with circuit breakers and reporting requirements. So it's a totally new game.
This guy has a lot of good insights on everything - otteroooo (@otteroooo)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So.... the nearest thing to an answer to "what even is the point of crypto existing given it's like money with extra steps and worse in every objective way"... which was "it's not regulated!" turned out to be its downfall?
SHOCKER!
SHOCKER!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Small local victory for emissions, DEC denied a permit for a gas plant mining Bitcoin.
www.coindesk.com
New York Environmental Regulators Deny Greenidge’s Power Plant Permit
Greenidge Generation has been in hot water with environmentalists for its use of fossil fuels to power its bitcoin mining operation on New York’s Seneca Lake.
El Salvador has BTC as a legal tender and apparently bought more in this dip. Now Mexico maybe? I have been happy buying a little here and there. Of course there are short scams becoming more prevalent. Is BTC a commodity or can it be a currency? This is getting very interesting.
news.bitcoin.com
Senator Indira Kempis Proposes Bill to Make Bitcoin Legal Tender in Mexico – Regulation Bitcoin News
Indira Kempis, a senator of the Congress of Mexico, has introduced a bill that would make bitcoin legal tender in the country.
What is a "short scam?"El Salvador has BTC as a legal tender and apparently bought more in this dip. Now Mexico maybe? I have been happy buying a little here and there. Of course there are short scams becoming more prevalent. Is BTC a commodity or can it be a currency? This is getting very interesting.
Senator Indira Kempis Proposes Bill to Make Bitcoin Legal Tender in Mexico – Regulation Bitcoin News
Indira Kempis, a senator of the Congress of Mexico, has introduced a bill that would make bitcoin legal tender in the country.
