Bjorn Nyland: New Model 3 Battery Pack Has Temperature Issues in Cold

[freeAgent]

Bjorn Nyland just put out a video about some issues with the new Panasonic 82Kwh battery pack in some "2021" Model 3s which I think is pretty interesting. It appears that the Panasonic pack is much more sensitive to cold temperatures than the older LG pack and the car's software doesn't account for this. In his testing, it was causing a Model 3 Performance with the new pack to have extreme performance issues in the cold while an early 2021 Model 3 Long Range with the old battery pack performed about twice as well once the state of charge dropped below around 50%. It does look like this is something that is easily fixable via software, but I imagine it's a pretty big issue for people in cold climates right now.

In any case, he suggests setting your navigation to a supercharger location even if you're not actually headed there so you can trick the car into "preheating" the battery if you run into the problem.

 

[Brock-WI]

I wonder if that it also why the software pre-heats the battery pack more than it used to, trying to account for the less cold tolerant cells?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’d be shocked if this is not resolved in software at some point in the next few months. This is a new cell. No need to stress it too much, as long as it can still get you from point A to point B!

They probably want to evaluate the effects of C-rate of discharge on the mechanical stability of the cell, and are being cautious so as to not create irreparable harm to any of the new packs.

Once they have more data they’ll probably let it rip. We’ll see.

Nothing to worry about for now.

 

[TomB985]

I’m a bit confused, I hasn’t the Model 3 used Panasonic cells since its introduction?

Panasonic introduced the “2170” lithium-ion cells, with the nickel-cobalt-aluminium (NCA) cathode chemistry, for Tesla’s Model 3 in 2017. Researchers say it already has the highest energy density at above 700 watt-hour per litre.

Exclusive: Panasonic aims to boost energy density in Tesla batteries by 20% - executive

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’m a bit confused, I hasn’t the Model 3 used Panasonic cells since its introduction?



Exclusive: Panasonic aims to boost energy density in Tesla batteries by 20% - executive

These are 2170L cells which are 5% more dense. That’s how the 2021 Performance has a nameplate 82.1kWh pack (actual capacity 79-81.5kWh when new), with the same 46p96s 2170 (L!) cell configuration.

So, they are a brand new type of cell, of identical size, which started assembling into packs in September.

 

[Gasaraki]

Bjorn Nyland just put out a video about some issues with the new Panasonic 82Kwh battery pack in some "2021" Model 3s which I think is pretty interesting. It appears that the Panasonic pack is much more sensitive to cold temperatures than the older LG pack and the car's software doesn't account for this. In his testing, it was causing a Model 3 Performance with the new pack to have extreme performance issues in the cold while an early 2021 Model 3 Long Range with the old battery pack performed about twice as well once the state of charge dropped below around 50%. It does look like this is something that is easily fixable via software, but I imagine it's a pretty big issue for people in cold climates right now.

In any case, he suggests setting your navigation to a supercharger location even if you're not actually headed there so you can trick the car into "preheating" the battery if you run into the problem.

Older LG pack? The LG pack cars are new from China. All the "old" cars use the Panasonic packs. You have to understand what's he's testing.

He's comparing a new 2021 LR from China with the LG batteries vs. the new 2021 Performance with the new denser Panasonic battery.

The new heating system with the octovalve is sucking the heat out of the batteries to warm the cabin. This is causing the battery in both the new cars to be cooler than in the old ones. Don't know why the algorithm is throttling the Performance so much in the cars with those new Panasonic batteries vs. the LG batteries. Theory is that since the LG batteries are of a different chemistry with more colbolt they can take a lower temperature? They'll most likely fix that in a future update when they are sure that the Panasonic batteries can also do low temperature.

 

[MP3Mike]

Don't know why the algorithm is throttling the Performance so much in the cars with those new Panasonic batteries vs. the LG batteries.

The cars he tested were on different firmware versions, which could be related.

 

[simonh]

It wasn't clear to me that this is an issue with the battery pack itself. I interpreted that it was due to the new heat-pump sucking too much heat from the battery pack and leaving it too cold to function correctly. That should be an easy software fix I'd have thought.

 

[btc1k]

He has an updated video on this

 

[jliver33]

Bjorn Nyland just put out a video about some issues with the new Panasonic 82Kwh battery pack in some "2021" Model 3s which I think is pretty interesting. It appears that the Panasonic pack is much more sensitive to cold temperatures than the older LG pack and the car's software doesn't account for this. In his testing, it was causing a Model 3 Performance with the new pack to have extreme performance issues in the cold while an early 2021 Model 3 Long Range with the old battery pack performed about twice as well once the state of charge dropped below around 50%. It does look like this is something that is easily fixable via software, but I imagine it's a pretty big issue for people in cold climates right now.

In any case, he suggests setting your navigation to a supercharger location even if you're not actually headed there so you can trick the car into "preheating" the battery if you run into the problem.

This ties in with my recent experience in a 2021 performance. Below 40% battery in temperatures around 6-11c (when I have tested it), the acceleration is SLOW.

Workmate has a 2021 LR which is fine right down to 10% where he only then gets a little slower but still acceptable.

 

[pt19713]

This ties in with my recent experience in a 2021 performance. Below 40% battery in temperatures around 6-11c (when I have tested it), the acceleration is SLOW.

Workmate has a 2021 LR which is fine right down to 10% where he only then gets a little slower but still acceptable.

2021.4.11 should've fixed the colder battery on the heat pump equipped vehicles.
I didn't do 0-60 tests on my 20202 LR Y AWD, but I did Scan My Tesla logs to test the cold weather battery pack and pre-conditioning, along with steady state driving at 65 mph and using the in-cabin heat. The latest "cold weather updates" has reduced the heat pack scavenging, which will help the acceleration and the cold weather supercharging.

 

[btc1k]

2021.4.11 should've fixed the colder battery on the heat pump equipped vehicles.
I didn't do 0-60 tests on my 20202 LR Y AWD, but I did Scan My Tesla logs to test the cold weather battery pack and pre-conditioning, along with steady state driving at 65 mph and using the in-cabin heat. The latest "cold weather updates" has reduced the heat pack scavenging, which will help the acceleration and the cold weather supercharging.

The OP's latest update said the latest software didn't fix the problem.

But would love to see the data comparisons on your LR if you have them, I am a data geek

 

[pt19713]

The OP's latest update said the latest software didn't fix the problem.

But would love to see the data comparisons on your LR if you have them, I am a data geek

The post was made prior to 2021.4.11?

 

[pt19713]

The OP's latest update said the latest software didn't fix the problem.

But would love to see the data comparisons on your LR if you have them, I am a data geek

Here's the post I made after 2021.4.11: Software update 2021.4.11 Cold Weather Improvement [Scan My Tesla log]

The main thing to take away from the info is the battery inlet temperatures not dropping dramatically when the in-cabin heat is turned on. I would typically see a drop of 7F in the battery inlet. Post 2021.4.11, the drop has been about 3F, which you'll see on the Teal line on the bottom portion of the graph. If the battery inlet temps aren't dropping dramatically, this means the coolant going into the battery will remain higher and thus, no battery scavenging.

 

[btc1k]

The post was made prior to 2021.4.11?

There is a new post just yesterday

Performance not performing