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bjorn nyland's test of tesla vision
- Thread starter debrooker
- Start date
Pretty much summarises the 2 1/2 years I’ve been a memberI'm surprised we've never had a discussion before on auto headlights, autopilot performance, wipers, over the air updates, which is better, the competition being 10 years behind, I drove 400 miles on a charge by hypermiling, I only got 150 miles out of the competition on a test drive when thrashing it in the rain. here's my holiday photos of my last european trip, it costs nothing to charge my Tesla (as I have Solar panels/free supercharging/still on the mega cheap octopus rate/spend all day hanging around tescos free chargers), I couldn't get a 3rd party charger to work the other day therefore they are all rubbish, what other car can you carry on watching netflix during a powercut, my windcreen is cracked, all of autopilot failures in the uk are because of the regulations and not Tesla, this EV (that cost half that of a Tesla) isn't as good, if you don't want to buy my car with a strange private plate and sexy buttons for £10k over the market it's because you can't afford it, twitter was a bad move, crypto was a bad move, crypto was a genious move etc etc etc etc etc etc
Did I miss anything?(I think that summerises my last week, it's been cathartic)
Nicely put George
The point for anyone now joining this thread is that with new cars now being vision only the experience ends up being different. On my previous Model 3 I could control these features while using AutoPilot. I had no big issue with either the auto-fulbeam or auto-wipers, both I would say worked adequately for me, easily as good as the 2012 BMW X1 I had previously. I would choose when to enable auto-fullbeam with the left stalk, and could switch between auto and off however I liked with the little pop-up wipers menu.
With Vision based AutoPilot cars you don't get a choice, the auto features are forced on when you enable AutoPilot. I specifically can't turn off the wipers if they are wiping due to dirt on a perfectly dry day, my only choice is to stop autopilot then turn them off. There is no longer an allowed human override. I've not tried but it also seems to be the point of Bjorns video, the auto-headlights switch back to auto even though he can see that the type of road isn't one where auto-headlights are appropriate.
So while in my 2019 Model 3 my "fine but not perfect" experience was acceptable, in my 2022 Model 3 it is no longer acceptable as I can't use AutoPilot in certain conditions.
I do wonder whether this is the same in the US to Europe, maybe their regulations don't need them to force on the autofeatures ?
With Vision based AutoPilot cars you don't get a choice, the auto features are forced on when you enable AutoPilot. I specifically can't turn off the wipers if they are wiping due to dirt on a perfectly dry day, my only choice is to stop autopilot then turn them off. There is no longer an allowed human override. I've not tried but it also seems to be the point of Bjorns video, the auto-headlights switch back to auto even though he can see that the type of road isn't one where auto-headlights are appropriate.
So while in my 2019 Model 3 my "fine but not perfect" experience was acceptable, in my 2022 Model 3 it is no longer acceptable as I can't use AutoPilot in certain conditions.
I do wonder whether this is the same in the US to Europe, maybe their regulations don't need them to force on the autofeatures ?
Zilla91
Active Member
The overarching issue has little to do with vision, it’s the rubbish auto headlights which are the issue even with pre-vision cars
It’s just more prevalent with vision cars because it’s been forced on you
It’s just more prevalent with vision cars because it’s been forced on you
JupiterMan
Active Member
I remember I had a Nissan 3 cars ago, which had a native facebook and eurosport news app. they were absolutely horrific apps (Nissan hardware not up to the job), but if there is a use case then many organisations would develop an app for it.
With an app store, there are many routes to revenue creation on the back of such apps, especially as we get closer to autonomy, which will allow much broader software uses. Should there be a critical app that Tesla wants to offer, then it is not impossible to imagine financial assistance from Tesla to port across certain apps (I imagine they did this for spotify for example)
as for niche, if Tesla does meet its 50% growth targets to 2030, there will be >106 million Teslas on the road at that point.
Zilla91
Active Member
But those Facebook and Eurosport apps weren’t made by those organisations, it was made by Nissan themselves so you’re not comparing apples to apples, you’re comparing them to an orange.
No, you are missing the point.
Whether BMW or Tesla have equivalent auto-wipers and auto-headlights is a separate point, they are both capable of errors. I know in my previous BMW I had to keep changing the sensitivity setting to get the wipers to hit an acceptable speed. Neither is likely to be 100% perfect.
The point is that Tesla force the auto features on when using AutoPilot and don't allow people to override. I was reasonably happy with both of these features on my previous car, sure they were not perfect but it wasn't a big deal, they were useful as they were. Now they are a problem due to the AutoPilot requirement.
If Vision AutoPilot relies of perfect behavior of auto-full beam and auto-wipers then it's not a viable service, they aren't going to be perfect, Tesla need to put back the radar.
Yeah. Great drivetrain, no argument
I kind of feel now that I would like a few buttons in the car, old school style.
I actually really like the software interface. It's snappy, good resolution, intuitive. The downside being, it doesn’t integrate with the hardware as well as it should.
For very basic car safety, you want good seat belts, airbags, good lights and good wipers. Car makers need to get these 4 things right. Tesla have got 2 right. They just need to put the effort in and fix the issues. How hard can it be?
I can’t use auto headlights without hover handing the stalk because I don’t have confidence in it, so I pretty much don’t use it.
By contrast the Peugeot e-2008 I mentioned before, I turned both auto headlights and wipers on when I first started driving it and from that point on I never needed to touch or think about it. Every drive they came on if they needed to, and stayed off when they didn’t.
That’s how it should work, and is conspicuously Irritating when it doesn’t. Paying a King’s ransom for a car built in 2020 that does these things so poorly is more irritating than it seems like it should be.
_Redshift_
Member
That’s like saying, “hey look I got a C on my test, but there is this one more kid in my class who got a D”.
Tesla’s UI is one of the least intuitive to operate.
The stupid car visualization that stays on whether you are using the AP or not, should tell you what kind of hipster doofuses are employed in Tesla’s UI team. That, and and the fact that when you accidentally swipe across it, the car’s visualization point changes to show you the car from any angle, a completely useless feature!
It is a stupefyingly bad use of screen real estate and development effort.
There are many other examples of a badly done UI, but that above one alone, is enough.
_Redshift_
Member
I have had my Model 3 with “neural net, deep learning“ auto wipers for almost 4 years now. Yet they keep doing the ‘wipe furiously for no reason‘ as recently as a few months ago.
I don’t know if the windshield was dirty or clean, it doesn’t matter. I pulled into my garage and parked the car, the wipers were quiet. When I got in my car a few hours later, they started wiping furiously. Inside the garage.
Explain the dirty windshield situation in this case?
Also, how come all other cars with a proper rain sensor (BMWs, mainly) never ever had an issue. Even 17 years back.
Id say of the wipers are deep learning NN based, I’d check if the NN is skipping out of school often.
Lets be honest.
The headlamps are crap! The wipers are crap!
The autopilot is worse than most of the equivalent ICE.
The no controls cockpit is crap in fact dangerous without immediate controls to operate dipping, wiper speeds and anything else that you automatically do in an emergency!
There are lots of unfathomable things like how the car automatically locks the passengers in everytime you the driver walks away to post a letter open a gate etc?
There are a couple of things Tesla have right. The Drivetrain, the engine efficiency but most of all the supercharger network!
The headlamps are crap! The wipers are crap!
The autopilot is worse than most of the equivalent ICE.
The no controls cockpit is crap in fact dangerous without immediate controls to operate dipping, wiper speeds and anything else that you automatically do in an emergency!
There are lots of unfathomable things like how the car automatically locks the passengers in everytime you the driver walks away to post a letter open a gate etc?
There are a couple of things Tesla have right. The Drivetrain, the engine efficiency but most of all the supercharger network!
Tesla has lost a lot of talented people in their software team. It’s hard to have a stable product when too many people are touching it.
_Redshift_
Member
Given you can dip the headlights using the left stalk, do you think maybe some of your other assertions may be questionable?
JupiterMan
Active Member
agree on this point. should be an easy fix, they just need to use the seat weight sensors to not lock the car when you walk away with the phone key.
a prompt to your phone saying the car is not locked would then be nice (like when you leave the boot open) just in case you had some baggage in the back seat fooling the sensor.
could even use the interior camera to note when humans are in the car and not lock it come to that.
For now, I leave my phone in the car, or do not fully shut the door when I have to jump out to do an errand with the family still in the car. not ideal.
Wol747
Active Member
I gave up a long time ago trying to follow the “logic” (my quotes!) of the door locking and mirror folding programs.
My car has just started unfurling all door handles when I touch the driver’s one - until last week it was only the one - without my changing any settings, and the passenger mirror has always had a life of its own and seems to be 50% linked to the passenger door handle! At present the car’s in the garage, unlocked, with one mirror folded and the other unfolded: it’s a toss up what will happen next time I back out….
My car has just started unfurling all door handles when I touch the driver’s one - until last week it was only the one - without my changing any settings, and the passenger mirror has always had a life of its own and seems to be 50% linked to the passenger door handle! At present the car’s in the garage, unlocked, with one mirror folded and the other unfolded: it’s a toss up what will happen next time I back out….
Surely the point is that you shouldn’t have to dip the headlights because they are supposed to be auto headlights. For years I’ve enjoyed auto wipers and superb matrix headlights (courtesy of Audi, probably the market leader in headlight technology) that I can just forget about because they work flawlessly. I buy an M3 and the wipers set me back 20 years and the headlights set me back 10 years. I never thought I’d see wipers thrashing about on a dry screen on a sunny day then refuse to wipe properly in a downpour, or have irate drivers flashing me because my auto headlights are blinding them.
They are, as roadcred said, crap!
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