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Blind spot hardware changes pending?

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When someone says "around 75+" it might mean [1] "I really meant 85+ but I don't want to admit it on the internets" or [2] it could just mean "somewhere in the above 50 range" or [3] it could mean "over 691hp" or [4] it could mean "my eyes say 75+ but I didn't have a formal measuring device". I interpreted the phrasing as likely [2].

Fair enough.

I was just amused at how well you thoroughly documented what looked like it was going to be a complete failure on the OP's part (if, say, the Tesla release notes had said 20-70 instead of 20-85), when anxman's actual stated speed number (without the plus) really fell within the range. But I see where you were going.
 
Fair enough.

I was just amused at how well you thoroughly documented what looked like it was going to be a complete failure on the OP's part (if, say, the Tesla release notes had said 20-70 instead of 20-85), when anxman's actual stated speed number (without the plus) really fell within the range. But I see where you were going.
Noted. I'll try to be a little clearer next time. I tend to skip a few steps for brevity sometimes.
 
Errr, I can't adjust my driver's side mirror wide enough to "just see" the edge of the car when my head is against the window. How are you guys doing it?

I had set my mirrors this way some time ago, using the method shown in the video in post number 62 in this thread (which I had seen posted some where before.) Using that method you don't move your head. My mirrors seem to be able to turn out wide enough.
 
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My experience has been well within the stated range: 30-65 MPH. Consistently inaccurate and inconsistent, as is the lane departure warning.
When someone says "around 75+" it might mean [1] "I really meant 85+ but I don't want to admit it on the internets" or [2] it could just mean "somewhere in the above 50 range" or [3] it could mean "over 691hp" or [4] it could mean "my eyes say 75+ but I didn't have a formal measuring device". I interpreted the phrasing as likely [2].

Further, if you say "75+" and you're talking about even a "lowly" S85 the "75+" band is pretty large -- [75,135). In that band, 90% of it is [81,135) so the documented "after 85 all bets are off" is pretty darn close. If you're talking about a P85D, then the top 90% is [83,155).
 
While this thread has been dormant for a while, recent discussion on the 7.0 beta thread mentioned the blind spot warning in passing. This caused me to think about how speculative UI improvements might improve the blind spot warning. Rather than posting off topic there, I thought this would be a more appropriate thread.

That said, I agree with many that the current visual implementation is too subtle to be picked up by peripheral vision and thus useless. However, I now think that much of the disappointment I feel with the implementation reflects the limitation of the sensors, which are basically ultrasonic and detect a vehicle that is statically within a few feet of the my car. That is fine for the case when the other vehicle is moving at the same speed as my car and is loitering in the "blind spot". (And yes, I have learned to adjust my mirrors to have essentially no blind spot.)

However, in highway driving I am also interested in the case where the other vehicle is overtaking my car and will be next to my car (entering my blind spot) as I start to change lanes. Obviously, the ultrasonic sensors can't cope with a vehicle that is approaching very quickly and so the side mirror check remains essential. But what if the other vehicle is moving relatively slowly, say relative speed of 1 mph, virtually motionless in a quick mirror check? That is about 1.5 feet/sec. For a sensor range of 10 feet, that allows a 7 second warning, assuming the speed of the other vehicle is known. Estimating the speed from the sensors probably reduces this by another second. At a relative speed of 4-5 mph the warning is a second at best. So the current sensors can only deal with a small range of situations where the other vehicle is moving at a very small relative speed. And that is assuming an optimal implementation by Tesla, which I am not claiming. If anything, the evidence points to Tesla not considering relative speed, which explains the relative "lateness" of the blind spot warning on the console when being passed.

My Tesla is the first car that I have owned with blind spot detection, so I can't compare with implementation from other brands. Perhaps they do include the relative speed of the other vehicle for a slightly better experience or have better hardware.

However, my net is that without better hardware to detect vehicles at greater range and with better estimate of relative speed, my expectations for the blind spot warning are now minimal. Hopefully the audible warning will alert me in time if I forget to check my mirrors while someone is loitering in my blind spot, because if I forget to check my mirrors, I am for sure not going to being checking the console. :redface:
 
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Don't forget we have a wide angle, HD rear-view camera to use in conjunction with ultrasonic. Tesla is working with MobileEye for Autopilot functionality and their specialty is using video cameras (as opposed to more expensive RADAR/LIDAR) to provide driver assistance. The rear view image could be analyzed to look for overtaking cars at a much greater distance, then verified with ultrasonic sensors.

Having come with other vehicles with blind spot monitors, I think Tesla just needs to fine tune the software. On other vehicles, it just worked. The Tesla implementation seems to react slowly and less reliably. And the other vehicles used the same ultrasonic sensors, so I don't think it's hardware.
 
My Model S is also my first vehicle to have active blind spot detection but it's fairly easy to assess the quality of other blind spot products in the market. I look at the side mirrors of other vehicles and many have lights to indicate a car in the blind spot. Generally speaking, they all seem to be more accurate and cover a larger space than the Model S. I am optimistic that they can improve the quality of the blind spot.

In the P85D/Autopilot introduction video, Elon Musk states that the ultrasonic sensors can operate at up to 150mph, and so I believe that more improvements are still coming, but just haven't been rolled out in the software yet.


While this thread has been dormant for a while, recent discussion on the 7.0 beta thread mentioned the blind spot warning in passing. This caused me to think about how speculative UI improvements might improve the blind spot warning. Rather than posting off topic there, I thought this would be a more appropriate thread.

That said, I agree with many that the current visual implementation is too subtle to be picked up by peripheral vision and thus useless. However, I now think that much of the disappointment I feel with the implementation reflects the limitation of the sensors, which are basically ultrasonic and detect a vehicle that is statically within a few feet of the my car. That is fine for the case when the other vehicle is moving at the same speed as my car and is loitering in the "blind spot". (And yes, I have learned to adjust my mirrors to have essentially no blind spot.)

However, in highway driving I am also interested in the case where the other vehicle is overtaking my car and will be next to my car (entering my blind spot) as I start to change lanes. Obviously, the ultrasonic sensors can't cope with a vehicle that is approaching very quickly and so the side mirror check remains essential. But what if the other vehicle is moving relatively slowly, say relative speed of 1 mph, virtually motionless in a quick mirror check? That is about 1.5 feet/sec. For a sensor range of 10 feet, that allows a 7 second warning, assuming the speed of the other vehicle is known. Estimating the speed from the sensors probably reduces this by another second. At a relative speed of 4-5 mph the warning is a second at best. So the current sensors can only deal with a small range of situations where the other vehicle is moving at a very small relative speed. And that is assuming an optimal implementation by Tesla, which I am not claiming. If anything, the evidence points to Tesla not considering relative speed, which explains the relative "lateness" of the blind spot warning on the console when being passed.

My Tesla is the first car that I have owned with blind spot detection, so I can't compare with implementation from other brands. Perhaps they do include the relative speed of the other vehicle for a slightly better experience or have better hardware.

However, my net is that without better hardware to detect vehicles at greater range and with better estimate of relative speed, my expectations for the blind spot warning are now minimal. Hopefully the audible warning will alert me in time if I forget to check my mirrors while someone is loitering in my blind spot, because if I forget to check my mirrors, I am for sure not going to being checking the console. :redface:
 
My Model S is also my first vehicle to have active blind spot detection but it's fairly easy to assess the quality of other blind spot products in the market. I look at the side mirrors of other vehicles and many have lights to indicate a car in the blind spot. Generally speaking, they all seem to be more accurate and cover a larger space than the Model S. I am optimistic that they can improve the quality of the blind spot.

In the P85D/Autopilot introduction video, Elon Musk states that the ultrasonic sensors can operate at up to 150mph, and so I believe that more improvements are still coming, but just haven't been rolled out in the software yet.

I have a 2010 AH7 BMW that has blind spot lights on the side view mirrors. They light up unobtrusively in a very normal driving way. They are lit until the car is either well in front or behind in the side lanes. Far enough for the cars behind you as to not even come close to cutting them off and irritating them. I have started to change lanes in my 85D and had the warning chime sound when the light on the dash wasn't even lit. This makes no sense. Apparently the car knew there was something there but wasn't going to give a dash visual at all. I still haven't figured out the rhyme or reason for when the gray light shows up on the dash!