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Bloomberg Sustainable Energy Factbook

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Robert.Boston, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    The 2013 Bloomberg Sustainable Energy Factbook contains the following graph of Total Cost of Ownership of various cars:
    Bloomberg TCO.png
    This chart highlights how important the federal tax credits are to making EVs affordable. (Tesla wasn't included, as they apparently felt there were no good comps.)
     
  2. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    Right behind you...
    You could potentially drop $1000 or so off of the running costs if your workplace and city have free charging locations.
     
  3. Liz G

    Liz G P03056

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    Once the cost of manufacturing goes down then the incentives will not be needed as in almost all cases the cost of running the vehicle is less for an EV then and ICE.
     
  4. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Why does the PiP cost more to operate than the regular Prius? And what happens when you double that annual mileage. I bet things start to look a bit different.
     
  5. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    Fine print states the price reflects the charging equipment as well. I bet that's why the higher cost.
     
  6. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    The chart is ridiculous bullshit.
    They say that the running cost is 12 years at 10,100 miles per year - for a total of 121200 miles.
    The Yaris has a combined EPA rating of 32mpg. $11153 over 121200 miles at 32mpg is $2.94 per gallon.
    In what reality is gasoline going to average $2.94 per gallon over the next 12 years?
    Do the math on the other ICE cars and they come out to about $2.94 per gallon too.
     
  7. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Looking back 8 years, $2.94 isn't crazy. Maybe that's where they got the numbers from...
    Historical Gas Price Charts - GasBuddy.com
     
  8. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Here are some actual numbers for the last nine-plus years. This is (mostly) in Texas where the gas cost is traditionally low.

    Lifestyle impact -- How much does fuel cost affect a Prius owner.


    12 months prior to Oct 2004
    Gas: $466.13 Miles: 13,333 $/mile: $0.0350
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $559.37


    12 months prior to Oct 2005
    Gas: $686.77 Miles: 16,631 $/mile: $0.0413
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $660.71


    12 months prior to Oct 2006
    Gas: $708.38 Miles: 14,716 $/mile: $0.0481
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $770.19


    12 months prior to Oct 2007
    Gas: $825.08 Miles: 17,963 $/mile: $0.0459
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $734.92


    12 months prior to Oct 2008
    Gas: $889.01 Miles: 15,855 $/mile: $0.0561
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $897.14


    12 months prior to Oct 2009
    Gas: $774.33 Miles: 20,641 $/mile: $0.0375
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $600.23


    12 months prior to Oct 2010
    Gas: $613.65 Miles: 14,589 $/mile: $0.0421
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $673.00


    12 months prior to Oct 2011
    Gas: $522.04 Miles: 10,606 $/mile: $0.0511
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $817.71


    12 months prior to Oct 2012
    Gas: $857.03 Miles: 16,024 $/mile: $0.0535
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $855.75


    Up to January 27, 2013 fill
    Gas: $202.00 Miles: 4,353 $/mile: $0.0464
    Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $742.48
     
  9. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    Thank you for posting an actual numbers! Very interesting ones!

    Could you please be so kind as to estimate roughly how much more or how much less you would had spent if you had chosen to buy Honda Civic in 2003?

    PS. I do understand that Prius is MUCH cooler car then Civic... But still curious.
     
  10. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Sorry, I have no idea.* I purchased the Prius in 2004 because I had bought a Prius for Denise in 2001 and it was so good that I bought a 2004 for myself (sight unseen). The only other car I looked at was a reconditioned DS-21. Had the 2004 Prius not come out I would have gone for that because there weren't any other cars that were even remotely interesting to me. Sadly, Toyota no longer makes the vehicles I want to drive. (Happily, Tesla does.)

    The three cars under consideration in 2001 for Denise were: Prius, Insight, and VW TDI. The VW TDI was out because of my really bad experience with them. (I make mistakes, but I avoid repeating them.) The Insight was out because Denise didn't want a manual transmission and it was also too small. Any car that didn't get 45 mpg or better was out as well.

    * Unless you have the actual numbers you are just estimating based on something (usually EPA). This is a YMMV.
     
  11. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I am sure if we could go back in time to gas prices from the past, everything will continue to look rosy for ICE cars.
    I made my own chart, but I'll actually tell you where the numbers came from. I used the average gas price from the last year as a starting point and then applied a modest 4% increase per year - even though it has been more than double that for almost the last 10 years.
    I also discarded their number for the PiP because it makes no sense and instead used the value from the regular Prius * 0.75 + the value from the Leaf * 0.25

    Here is my chart:

    bloomberg.png

    Then I made another chart and assumed that gas was going to increase at 7% for the next 12 years - which is still less than it has for the last 10.

    bloomberg2.png

    It must be true, there is a chart!
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    @jerry - Do you have $/gal and gal in your data? I'm confused trying to translate your data into that. I feel like I'm missing some numbers, like the average miles/gal efficiency or something.

    @richkae - To be clear, I wasn't backing or rejecting their numbers. Just guessing where they might have gotten them from. Also, I'd like to see the Model S theorycraft added to your charts.

    That said, interesting data and charts. :)
     
  13. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I tried to send a PM, but your mailbox is full (also my message was too long), so here's the text part of the PM:

    The cost per gallon isn't recorded, so what I have is the amount I paid and the number of miles I drove. I do have the gallons but they aren't tied to that particular calculation. I have never recorded the actual price per gallon, though it could be easily calculated because every fill is recorded with the number of gallons and the amount paid for the fill. Here's the entire log [which was a bit too long for a PM]. I also have a Numbers spreadsheet with additional data if you're interested.
     
  14. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Ick. I'll go fix that. I wonder if premium (donation) buys a larger mailbox...

    - - - Updated - - -

    No worries if you didn't keep the numbers separate in the log. I thought you might have just omitted it for post brevity. Thanks for sharing the data that you do have.
     
  15. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The spreadsheet I keep is kind of big, so I put things that I'm always posting about in files that I can just cut and paste. That particular one was started when there were a lot of questions about how rising gas prices were changing people's lifestyle.

    In fact, I started keeping track because just before I got mine there were a number of complaints about how EPA mpg wasn't being met. It's hard to refute that without real data.
     

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