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Bloomberg Tesla Autopilot Accident Story Today

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Haven't seen this here yet - some more comments from the driver:
Tesla owner who crashed on Autopilot has a warning for other drivers

In the beginning, he kept his hands on the wheel and was a bit worried something would happen. But after awhile, the system seemed to be predictable. After using it on the same routes several times, he began to feel he knew the places where the car "gets confused," as said in an interview with CNBC.
Molthan is a property developer, and he drove his car the same route to a job site at least 10 times on Autopilot, and on the day of the crash, the system had been engaged for at least 30 to 40 minutes.
The car came to a slight bend in the road and veered out of the lane on Highway 175, in Kaufman, Texas, a rural area outside Dallas. It struck a guardrail at least three times.
Molthan carefully pointed out that his eyes were not on the road when the crash occurred. He reached over to pet his dog, and then buff some fingerprints and dust off the computer screen on the dashboard. When he looked up, it was too late to react.



I guess the interesting thing about this story is he appeared to be a pretty experienced user of Autopilot and thought he knew where the system would have problems and needed to be watched closer. And he still was caught out by it. I am beginning to go with the "accidental disengagement" theory - he hit the steering wheel, turned of AP, and didn't know it.

I wish we would hear back from Tesla - the crash happened on the 7th, its been weeks and they still haven't responded with the logs.
 
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I guess the interesting thing about this story is he appeared to be a pretty experienced user of Autopilot and thought he knew where the system would have problems and needed to be watched closer. And he still was caught out by it.
Isn't it convenient that the time he wasn't paying much attention was when he reached over to pet his dog, get a towel from the glove box, etc. I contend that he accidentally turned off autopilot when reaching in the glovebox by brushing against the steering wheel with his knee, thigh, arm or body.
 
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Isn't it convenient that the time he wasn't paying much attention was when he reached over to pet his dog, get a towel from the glove box, etc. I contend that he accidentally turned off autopilot when reaching in the glovebox by brushing against the steering wheel with his knee, thigh, arm or body.

Yeah, I am leaning towards this theory now as well. Maybe @danahull can follow up?
 
Haven't seen this here yet - some more comments from the driver:
Tesla owner who crashed on Autopilot has a warning for other drivers

In the beginning, he kept his hands on the wheel and was a bit worried something would happen. But after awhile, the system seemed to be predictable. After using it on the same routes several times, he began to feel he knew the places where the car "gets confused," as said in an interview with CNBC.
Molthan is a property developer, and he drove his car the same route to a job site at least 10 times on Autopilot, and on the day of the crash, the system had been engaged for at least 30 to 40 minutes.
The car came to a slight bend in the road and veered out of the lane on Highway 175, in Kaufman, Texas, a rural area outside Dallas. It struck a guardrail at least three times.
Molthan carefully pointed out that his eyes were not on the road when the crash occurred. He reached over to pet his dog, and then buff some fingerprints and dust off the computer screen on the dashboard. When he looked up, it was too late to react.



I guess the interesting thing about this story is he appeared to be a pretty experienced user of Autopilot and thought he knew where the system would have problems and needed to be watched closer. And he still was caught out by it. I am beginning to go with the "accidental disengagement" theory - he hit the steering wheel, turned of AP, and didn't know it.

I wish we would hear back from Tesla - the crash happened on the 7th, its been weeks and they still haven't responded with the logs.

This sounds like an honest man giving his honest opinion about what led to a traumatic event for him. He probably shouldn't talk to the press (they'll just take advantage of him to get their story) but his opinion is still real and valid. We should pay attention to his warnings.
 
Why can't these idiots do all their cleaning and stuff on a simple stretch on a divided highway. It works phenomenally well in those conditions

Joeski1: have you used AP for any reasonable length of time ? If not I would suggest be on the sidelines and listen to folks who have.

I 've used it enough to have multiple misgivings.. been off the road once thanks to it.. almost off the road a second time.. have disabled it now for about 4 months and will not use any longer.. it simply isn't trustworthy... you'll get caught just like the rest eventually....

In fact.. a guy up in Canada just had his autopark feature clip a pick up truck while auto parking.. posted a YouTube on that...probably did $3000 worth of damage to his MS...
 
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Haven't seen this here yet - some more comments from the driver:
Tesla owner who crashed on Autopilot has a warning for other drivers

In the beginning, he kept his hands on the wheel and was a bit worried something would happen. But after awhile, the system seemed to be predictable. After using it on the same routes several times, he began to feel he knew the places where the car "gets confused," as said in an interview with CNBC.
Molthan is a property developer, and he drove his car the same route to a job site at least 10 times on Autopilot, and on the day of the crash, the system had been engaged for at least 30 to 40 minutes.
The car came to a slight bend in the road and veered out of the lane on Highway 175, in Kaufman, Texas, a rural area outside Dallas. It struck a guardrail at least three times.
Molthan carefully pointed out that his eyes were not on the road when the crash occurred. He reached over to pet his dog, and then buff some fingerprints and dust off the computer screen on the dashboard. When he looked up, it was too late to react.



I guess the interesting thing about this story is he appeared to be a pretty experienced user of Autopilot and thought he knew where the system would have problems and needed to be watched closer. And he still was caught out by it. I am beginning to go with the "accidental disengagement" theory - he hit the steering wheel, turned of AP, and didn't know it.

I wish we would hear back from Tesla - the crash happened on the 7th, its been weeks and they still haven't responded with the logs.

Save yourself $2500 and avoid the AP option.... wait until another 30 day no strings test trial... you can see for yourself whether it's worth the money or not.. don't be mislead by TESLA "sales specialists" or hype.... and if you do use it.. BEWARE
 
This sounds like an honest man giving his honest opinion about what led to a traumatic event for him. He probably shouldn't talk to the press (they'll just take advantage of him to get their story) but his opinion is still real and valid. We should pay attention to his warnings.

It's pretty tough to get honest anything here.. anyone that holds stock in TESLA, Solar City or SpaceV can't be trusted for unbiased info.... so this guy is really going out on thin ice of TMC ridicule by chancing honesty here.....
 
Save yourself $2500 and avoid the AP option.... wait until another 30 day no strings test trial... you can see for yourself whether it's worth the money or not.. don't be mislead by TESLA "sales specialists" or hype.... and if you do use it.. BEWARE
Clearly we know you do not like the AP features. But I guess that makes you gullible. Anyway, I watched the video I'm wondering if the bicyclist could have affected how it saw the parking space as you clearly see a bicyclist ride by just before he engages in autopark.
 
Clearly we know you do not like the AP features. But I guess that makes you gullible. Anyway, I watched the video I'm wondering if the bicyclist could have affected how it saw the parking space as you clearly see a bicyclist ride by just before he engages in autopark.

I was sold on AP till I experienced how it actually works.... or doesn't... if one has no prior experience with this system.. and is gullible enough to believe what elon himself said.. and what the TESLA sales staff promulgates they will buy this cruise control system on steroids thinking it can do all kinds of wondrous things.. only to find out it can't...

in fact.. it's actual usefulness is sooo limited... it should come with the car for nothing.... not an extra cent...

I'm surprised the car didn't hit the bicyclist as well... so what you're implying.. is a passing bike caused the system to misfire and hit the truck??

what about passing vehicles?? vehicles are always passing by on city streets... should all traffic be required to stop while auto park functions?

and I believe the auto park was engaged PRIOR to the bike going by.... the engage tone sounds before the bike passes...
 
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I was sold on AP till I experienced how it actually works.... or doesn't... if one has no prior experience with this system.. and is gullible enough to believe what elon himself said.. and what the TESLA sales staff promulgates they will buy this cruise control system on steroids thinking it can do all kinds of wondrous things.. only to find out it can't...
I think you'll find overwhelmingly the people that have purchased AutoPilot believe it's awesome. The fact that you somehow reached some nonsensical expectations of the initial AutoPilot is beyond me.

I'm surprised the car didn't hit the bicyclist as well... so what you're implying.. is a passing bike caused the system to misfire and hit the truck??
I'm implying that the bicyclist the passed the driver prior to him engaging the autopark may have skewed the sensors which is required to estimate the amount of space.

Just yesterday I washed my car inside my garage and I proceeded to summon it. First attempt, it just stopped. I thought I hadn't held down the keyfob long enough. Second attempt it moved very briefly then engaged my garage door opener. I was next to my opener button so I was able to stop it from marring my car. Third attempt it did the same thing. I was perplexed until I walk behind my car and saw that I had my pest control sprayer behind my car. Normally how summon works inside the garage, if it detects an object (garage door) it will engage the HomeLink to open the garage door, then back out and engage HomeLink again to close. Because I had the object me, it thought it was a garage door and engaged the HomeLink.

Point is, there may be a simple explanation. I don't think I've heard of another story where the autopark failed as badly. I've heard of scuffed rims from it being curbed but not hitting another car.
 
Isn't it convenient that the time he wasn't paying much attention was when he reached over to pet his dog, get a towel from the glove box, etc. I contend that he accidentally turned off autopilot when reaching in the glovebox by brushing against the steering wheel with his knee, thigh, arm or body.

I'm not sure it's convenient. He could be truthful but wrong. I only had AP for one week on a loaner, during which time I did a lot of highway driving (and to be honest, I used it practically any time I could to see if I wanted to upgrade to get it). As I said in another thread, I think AP may create a problem with the human mind that I will coin: "Phantom Autopilot". This happens when you use autopilot a lot and you just expect the car to be driving itself, even when AP is not engaged. That is what may have happened to this guy, since he drove this route so often on AP.

I don't even think better sound warnings, different graphics, etc. will make much of a difference to combat this phenomenon. I think the human brain gravitates towards patterns and reliance, and once it finds new ones, it expects them to be there, even when they are not. Well, at least my brain does. I found myself expecting the car to react even when AP was off which makes no logical sense, but it did happen and it concerns me. Maybe it's just me?

What gets me is that Tesla in the past quickly revealed the logs when AP was not engaged during an accident. Their silence may speak volumes. Regardless, either it was on AP, or it wasn't, but either way I think the driver truly believes it was engaged.

Come on Tesla, reveal the logs!

And let's all start using the word Phantom Autopilot for driving the car believing you are on autopilot when you are not (even for a brief instant) which is most common - then you turn it on. I always wanted to coin a new phrase. Like the guy who coined "Jump the Shark". I think it's a real phenomenon that we have to be acutely aware of so we best start with a phrase for it... ;)

So next time this happens, if someone says it was likely phantom autopilot syndrome, we'll all know that what is meant by that statement is the driver truly believed it was on, but it was off, and his brain was tricking him. I expect we are going to see a lot more of these.
 
I have experienced phantom AP effect but quickly realized that AP was not on.

I think that's most common and the vast majority of the time no harm is done. But for the times when someone truly believes it is on, but it is off, and an accident is caused, can't we also say AP caused the accident? "But for" the car having AP (even though it was off), the accident would not have happened since if there was no AP the driver would not have believed it was on. So maybe AP caused it either way? If this guy had a non-AP car, he would have been driving himself and paying more attention. Right?

I know AP saves lives overall, so I don't need those replies. I just want to raise this issue since I think it's an important one. The more aware we become of the phantom AP effect, the more likely we are to avoid it. And to be clear, I have no idea if phantom AP was the case in this accident.
 
What gets me is that Tesla in the past quickly revealed the logs when AP was not engaged during an accident. Their silence may speak volumes. Regardless, either it was on AP, or it wasn't, but either way I think the driver truly believes it was engaged.
Are we sure Tesla even knows the identity of the driver at this point?

So next time this happens, if someone says it was likely phantom autopilot syndrome, we'll all know that what is meant by that statement is the driver truly believed it was on, but it was off, and his brain was tricking him. I expect we are going to see a lot more of these.
Maybe Tesla needs to require hand on the steering wheel once TACC is engaged without AP. That way it will alert the driver continuously until the user is back in compliance. I'm sure @green1 would love another restriction.
 
I think that's most common and the vast majority of the time no harm is done. But for the times when someone truly believes it is on, but it is off, and an accident is caused, can't we also say AP caused the accident? "But for" the car having AP (even though it was off), the accident would not have happened since if there was no AP the driver would not have believed it was on. So maybe AP caused it either way? If this guy had a non-AP car, he would have been driving himself and paying more attention. Right?

I know AP saves lives overall, so I don't need those replies. I just want to raise this issue since I think it's an important one. The more aware we become of the phantom AP effect, the more likely we are to avoid it. And to be clear, I have no idea if phantom AP was the case in this accident.

Let's take this further to the logical conclusion. If the man hadn't been driving at all, this accident would not have happened. Think about that for a moment.

If he had not had a car at all, he wouldn't be driving, he would not have had the accident.

If he hadn't been born at all ...
 
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Let's take this further to the logical conclusion. If the man hadn't been driving at all, this accident would not have happened. Think about that for a moment.

If he had not had a car at all, he wouldn't be driving, he would not have had the accident.

If he hadn't been born at all ...

I don't think my argument is simply an exercise in reductio ad absurdum but your post sure is, and it did give me a good laugh.