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Discussion in 'Model 3' started by TEG, May 19, 2009.
Mercedes B-Class would make a good starting point for Tesla "Blue Star"...
Yeah, I said something similar back in January.
A good starting point yes. But 45K-55K is not a Bluestar car. Needs to be close to half that $.
I think he just means the chassis, size and such
Yes. I said a good starting point. Agreed.
Good point--but that's where Tesla made it work. They developed their vehicle on a shoestring budget. Give them another shot with blue star and then let Damler refine it along with economy of scale and now we're talking. Bluestar could be advanced quickly. Hell, they could even take the shell of the Model S and bare bones it for all I care. That would be a thought as well. Why not just take their offerings and figure out how to do them cheaper and better for the time being.
As long as decent battery pack costs 20.000 USD forget about BlueStar.
30.000 USD BlueStar would be comparable to 10.000 USD cars of today.
They'll have to cut battery price down closer to $10k by taking out a lot of range and capacity for the Bluestar. If the $30-36k price is true for the 53kWh pack, this will be a 18-15kWh battery pack (oh and this is assuming battery prices aren't cheaper by the time they decide to make the Bluestar). This is inline with most of the cheaper EVs we are seeing.
iMIEV for example is 16kWh and it is like a $10k car, so I see your point.
It appears the Nissan EV & the Ford Focus EV will be in this range too; the Volt is also 16kWh but it's a little different. So there is a possibility of geting a roughly $20k car for $30k.
The key question to BlueStar is why do LiIon batteries cost as much as they do?
I'm not an expert but it looks to me like it is the current manufacturing techniques.
Raw materials are very small part of the price. There just ain't enough production capacity to satisfy the market. Daimler's move to build their own batteries might not be such a bad idea after all any that might be the key to cheaper quality EVs of the future.
I would say that's a accurate accessment. Every major automaker pursuing an EV/plug-in has a locked in a battery plant already, this includes Daimler, Nissan, Mitsubishi, GM. Toyota & Honda has battery plants locked in too, but they are for hybrids.
Mass manufacturing battery packs with cells optimized for automotive purposes (meets all life cycle, safety requirements and also doesn't waste packaging from being non-optimal) will drive down battery cost regardless of chemistry improvements.
Thundersky and Sky Energy large format prismatics are going for around $1.10 ah in bulk purchases. This puts a 20kwh pack at about $7K. 20kwh packs would get you 80 mile range assuming average 250 wh/mi., Large auto companies could certainly get a better price than that, plus the LiFePO4 prismatics need less cooling, fewer connections, and no thermal runaway management, making the whole pack design cheaper. Density is improving with these cells as well, 190ah cells are the same size as 160ah cells were a few months ago and C rates have gone up.
It seems like the two have indeed been collaborating.
I beg to differ. I hope the Bluestar/Gen III retains the same basic format as the Model S, i.e. rear motor/drive. A FWD car, unless it's a truly budget/economy-oriented model, just seems too mass-market and commoditized. I know Musk has mass-market aspirations for Tesla, but I think Tesla needs a 3 Series-sized performance model before it gets into the mass-market Point A-to-B sheeple shuttles.
Welcome to 2009 :wink:
I know...Just bringing things up to date. :smile: