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BMW and Nissan currently building USA 120 50kW DC Fast chargers that work all EV's

MitchJi

Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Jun 1, 2015
3,971
8,905
Marin County, CA
BMW and Nissan are (Sort Of) Taking On Tesla Motors' Superchargers -- The Motley Fool

BMW and Nissan are (Sort Of) Taking On Tesla Motors' Superchargers
The two automakers are joining forces to roll out a network of public fast-charging stations for electric cars. But unlike Tesla’s Superchargers, these new stations will be open to everybody.

BMW (NASDAQOTH:BAMXF) and Nissan (NASDAQOTH:NSANY) announced on Monday that they have joined forces to roll out a network of public electric-car charging stations across 19 U.S. states.

Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) has already built over 500 of its vaunted Supercharger stations around the world, but Tesla's are proprietary chargers that only work with the company's vehicles. The new Nissan/BMW stations use connectors that will fit all fast-charging-capable electric vehicles in the U.S. -- and they work faster than most non-Tesla public EV-charging stations currently in existence.

So what does this mean?
Not quite as fast as Superchargers, but better than most
Here's what we know about the BMW/Nissan effort. There are 120 stations that are either already open or set to open soon. The companies say that there are stations already open in 19 different states.

These are dual-port 50-kilowatt DC fast-chargers. They're a step up from the "Level 2" charging stations that are common in some parts of the United States. BMW and Nissan say that the new 50kW stations will be able to recharge a Nissan Leaf or BMW i3 "up to 80 percent in about 20-30 minutes."
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S'toon

Knows where his towel is
Apr 23, 2015
3,699
3,640
AB
I'll be less cynical if the nearest Chademo/CCS station wasn't even further away than the nearest Supercharger.
 

MitchJi

Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Jun 1, 2015
3,971
8,905
Marin County, CA
BMW and Nissan are joining forces to offer public DC Fast charging
and Nissan are joining forces to offer public DC Fast charging at 120 locations across 19 states in an effort to support Nissan LEAF and BMW i3 customers and to promote increased adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) nationwide.

With this partnership between two of the top EV manufacturers, BMW and Nissan address the growing demand for additional public DC Fast-charging options in markets spanning the country, giving drivers the ability to easily extend the length of their electric travels. The breadth of Nissan and BMW’s fast-charger buildout is expansive, with fast chargers now available in California, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, New Mexico, Nevada, New York, North and South Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia and Wisconsin.

“BMW continues to pursue new ways to support the development of a robust public charging infrastructure that will benefit current and future BMW i3 owners across the country. This BMW-Nissan project builds on BMW’s ongoing commitment to participate in joint partnerships designed to expand DC Fast charging options nationwide for all EV drivers,” said Cliff Fietzek, Manager Connected eMobility, BMW of North America. “Together with Nissan, we are focused on facilitating longer distance travel so that even more drivers will choose to experience the convenience of e-mobility for themselves.”

“Nissan takes a three-pronged approach to growing public EV charging options for LEAF drivers by installing quick chargers in the community, at corporate workplaces and at Nissan dealerships,” said Andrew Speaker, Nissan’s director of Electric Vehicle Sales and Marketing. “By working with BMW to increase the number of available public quick-chargers, we are able to further enhance range confidence among EV drivers across the country.”

Each of these new locations will offer a dual 50 kW DC Fast-charging station with both CHAdeMO and CCS (Combo) connectors, serving owners of both Nissan LEAF and BMW i3 electric cars, as well as all EV drivers in the U.S. whose vehicles are equipped with quick-charge ports. These 50 kW stations can charge EVs from Nissan and BMW up to 80 percent in about 20-30 minutes, as compared to the longer time required to recharge at a Level 2 (240V) charger, currently the most commonly available public charging station.

Drivers can easily locate the chargers with ConnectedDrive in the BMW i3—either using the in-vehicle Navigation or by using the BMW i Remote App—or via the Nissan EZ-Charge smartphone app. Additionally, these chargers are compatible with the Nissan EZ-Charge cards.
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,398
2,238
SF Bay Area, CA
I was a bit confused by this.

The verbiage at Nissan and BMW partner to deploy dual fast chargers across the U.S. to benefit electric vehicle drivers - Nissan Online Newsroom implies the 120 have already been deployed.
Dec. 21, 2015
...
A total of 120 dual-port 50kW fast-charging stations have been installed across 19 states to support longer distance electric vehicle travel for Nissan LEAF and BMW i3 drivers.
These publicly available Greenlots-networked charging stations include both CHAdeMO and SAE Combo connectors, suitable for all fast charging-capable electric vehicles in the U.S.

NASHVILLE, Tenn., and WOODCLIFF LAKE, N.J. – Nissan and BMW are joining forces to offer public fast charging at 120 locations across 19 states in an effort to support Nissan LEAF and BMW i3 customers and to promote increased adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) nationwide.
To steal a comment on a Facebook group about this: "6 per state? The future is here." :D

I guess for some states, if 6 are/were added, that's actually a huge improvement.
 
Feb 1, 2015
81
6
Mililani, HI
When reading that article I just remember this memorable quote from a 2014 ValueWalk interview:

Jacob Harb, head of electric vehicle sales and strategy for BMW North America said in an interview with AutoGuide that the network will include their “game changing” DC charger that will deliver an 80% charge in approximately 30 minutes. Electric vehicles from other brands will also be compatible with the network. Harp added that such chargers usually cost about $50,000 each and are similar to a household refrigerator in size. But BMW’s unit will cost just $6,500 and measures 24×17 inches.

Harb said that an official announcement will be made during the North American International Auto Show, adding that they want to set up those charging stations everywhere. Harb said, “I don’t think [Tesla is] going to be happy with how quickly these things roll out.” (Emphasis mine)

Cue laughter. Tesla now has ~244 superchargers in the US running at least 100 kw.
 
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cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,398
2,238
SF Bay Area, CA
Cue laughter. Tesla now has ~244 superchargers in the US running at least 100 kw.
FWIW, the guy tracking at Tesla Supercharger Network - Page 115 - My Nissan Leaf Forum states that in the US, Tesla Superchargers cover 44 states, w/244 locations w/a total of 1,640 charging stalls.

The "game changer" is the low cost of the units, being the subsidized ~$6,500 to BMW dealers and qualifying partners. Other DC FCs are typically $15K+ to start with, for the charger only, not including anything else (e.g. installation).

But, none of these 50 kW dual port units are the above cheap 24 kW SAE Combo (Combo 1) only units.
 

omarsultan

Active Member
Jun 22, 2013
2,365
4,784
Northern California
Elon's secret plan continues to bear fruit. While this is well behind the SuperCharger network, it is a win for everyone to see manufacturers spending their own money to help build out infrastructure, well, everyone but Toyota who is still trying to foist fool cell infrastructure on the US taxpayer.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,587
22,076
Texas
The "game changer" is the low cost of the units, being the subsidized ~$6,500 to BMW dealers and qualifying partners. Other DC FCs are typically $15K+ to start with, for the charger only, not including anything else (e.g. installation).

Which means they'll be at the dealer locations, which are often inconvenient compared to Supercharger locations, and probably only one or two stalls per dealer. It also means each dealer will have the say over who can and can't charge. I don't see how this will affect Tesla at all, other than promoting EVs in general.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,587
22,076
Texas
Have they provided a map of where they intend to install these? I can't imagine 120 locations for a vehicle that gets 120 km to a charge is going to get very far.
The only map I've seen has a few lines between some major cities. They were "as the crow flies" lines.
 

Jaff

Active Member
Aug 15, 2010
3,135
318
Grimsby, Canada
It also means that the host dealer site must ensure that the charge station is outside of the dealership's security perimeter (when closed)...most dealer charging stations that I have seen are level II's, and would be inaccessible to folks wanting a charge after the dealership is closed...

Which means they'll be at the dealer locations, which are often inconvenient compared to Supercharger locations, and probably only one or two stalls per dealer. It also means each dealer will have the say over who can and can't charge. I don't see how this will affect Tesla at all, other than promoting EVs in general.
 

techmaven

Active Member
Feb 27, 2013
3,618
9,711
24 kW CCS EVSE's are basically comparable to 80 amp HPWC's, so one has to add together the Tesla's Supercharger footprint with the destination charging program footprint.

Anyone really comparing what Nissan/BMW is doing as challenging Tesla in any way doesn't actually own a BEV and tried traveling on these networks. Using 50kw DC EVSE's they need to be installing at 4x Tesla's footprint in terms of locations. They also need to install at 4-8x on a plug basis.

Too many of these plugs are installed at dealerships and have dealership hours. Traffic jam causing a delay would often mean the inability to charge since the dealership closed. Travel on weekends and especially Sunday's are especially hard.

All of this indicates that BMW and Nissan are still playing around and haven't gotten serious about a BEV future.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
9,939
4,850
As others point out, what matters is where they are installing them and how many at each location. If they are continuing the same strategy of installing one at a dealer then that does not really solve the infrastructure problem. They need stations that have more than one charger and can be used unattended. The stations also need to be maintained and fixed quickly when they break.
 

Zarwin

Member
May 12, 2014
601
671
Hillsborough, NC
They also need to install at 4-8x on a plug basis.

That's the biggest issue. Installing individual stations at locations does not scale at all. If they were at all serious, a minimum of 4 stall capable stations should be implemented from day 1, even if that means a much smaller 'network' initially.
 

paulkva

Member
Jul 22, 2013
703
235
Falls Church, VA
From the Motley Fool article:
Here's what we know about the BMW/Nissan effort. There are 120 stations that are either already open or set to open soon. The companies say that there are stations already open in 19 different states.
I looked for a while but I can't find a map of these stations online anywhere. Have I missed something?

The Nissan press release says they're "Greenlots-networked" -- amazingly, greenlots.com doesn't appear to have a map accessible to the public via the web. You have to download their app, but that experience is pretty terrible:
* it doesn't allow you to filter down to DCFC
* it doesn't allow you to filter locations down to Greenlots only
* it only shows stations within ~20 miles of your location
* panning and zooming won't adjust what stations are shown, you actually have to search each time

Based on the fact that the articles specify "public" charging locations, I'm cautiously optimistic they won't all be at dealerships, but right now there's just no way to know. I'm NOT optimistic about how many plugs will be at each location; I expect there will just be one CHAdeMO and one CCS.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that a different charging parnership involving BMW (and VW) was announced early this year (and I think discussed in other threads here):
BMW, VW ChargePoint to build EV fast-charging stations
Sadly, the only map I see for that partnership is the infographic in that article.

I'm left wondering how many more iterations we'll have to witness before someone implements a charging network that is (1) easy for EV drivers to use, (2) sufficiently widespread to allow EV drivers to go anywhere they want, (3) scalable when EVs become more popular, and (4) compatible with as many EVs as possible. Tesla is clearly far ahead of anyone else, and even their network still has significant flaws.
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,398
2,238
SF Bay Area, CA
24 kW CCS EVSE's are basically comparable to 80 amp HPWC's, so one has to add together the Tesla's Supercharger footprint with the destination charging program footprint.
Except per press releases, they're not installing 24 kW CCS DC "FCs". They're installing/installed 50 kW dual-standard DC FCs. And, no BMW nor any SAE Combo equipped cars even have above a 7.2 kW OBC, so an 80 amp EVSE is no more helpful than a 30 amp one, for those cars.
Too many of these plugs are installed at dealerships and have dealership hours. Traffic jam causing a delay would often mean the inability to charge since the dealership closed. Travel on weekends and especially Sunday's are especially hard.
I agree about the initial deployment of Nissan-branded CHAdeMO DC FCs. Many were at dealers, behind the secured area and thus totally inaccessible after the dealer closed. :(

- - - Updated - - -

I can't imagine 120 locations for a vehicle that gets 120 km to a charge is going to get very far.
Well, 2013-2015 and 2016 Leaf S trims in the US are EPA rated at 84 miles (135 km) on 100% charge. 2016 Leaf SV and SL have 30 kWh battery, up from 24 kWh, upping their EPA range rating to 107 miles (172 km).
 

Chuq

Active Member
Jan 1, 2015
3,172
3,741
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Well, 2013-2015 and 2016 Leaf S trims in the US are EPA rated at 84 miles (135 km) on 100% charge. 2016 Leaf SV and SL have 30 kWh battery, up from 24 kWh, upping their EPA range rating to 107 miles (172 km).
But still - that's half of the Model S. They're still going to need the stations every (lets say) 50-60 miles / 80-90km or so. So since the stations will be packed closer together, they won't cover nearly the same geographic area as 120 Telsa SCs would.
 

1208

Active Member
Dec 22, 2014
1,370
900
UK
Charging stations need to have the same number of stalls as petrol stations have for fossil cars. Where I am I think that is about 12-16 pn average.
 

DavidM

P2624, Delivered
Aug 18, 2011
451
21
Florida
For anyone with a Model S equipped with dual chargers, or a Model X with the 72A charger, the thousands of Tesla Destination chargers in the US are a huge benefit over what BMW and Nissan have announced. I love this "forgotten network". No lines, no waiting, and free. Many are at hotels, but some are at restaurants and other public locations (like a brand new mall near me). Up to 55 miles of range per hour, and best of all, you don't have to wait for a BMW i3 or a Leaf to unplug before you can use one. They are a great charging opportunity while you are eating lunch, or staying in a hotel, or shopping, etc. If you have a Model S without dual chargers, consider the upgrade to "dual", while you still have the option. And if you are buying a production Model X, inquire about how to upgrade from a 48A to 72A charger BEFORE you configure, because you can't do it later.
 

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