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BMW/Bosch will offer $6548 CCS DC Charger plus free evGO DC charging through 2015

Discussion in 'North America' started by stopcrazypp, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    BMW/Bosch is releasing a 24kW DC charger for only $6548.

    Previously the cheapest DC charger on the market was the 44kW Nissan Advanced DC Quick Charger at $15,500 (the cheaper $9,900 Basic version never came out).

    This charger is suitcase-sized, only 100 lbs and can be wall mounted (vs the 441 lbs human-sized pedestal charger for the Nissan). Also IP54 outdoor rated (vs IP44 for the Nissan charger). Obviously it uses a SAE Combo1 CCS connector (not CHAdeMO) to be compatible with the i3.

    It uses ChargePoint or ChargeNow cards and BMW is offering free DC charging through 2015.

    https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/pressDetail.html?title=bmw-unveils-bmw-i-dc-fast-chargers-and-chargenow-dc-fast-program-at-plug-in-2014&outputChannelId=9&id=T0189823EN_US&left_menu_item=node__5236


    This shows BMW is actually quite serious about providing DC charging for the i3 to go head to head with the Leaf (I didn't expect this from BMW).

    For such a cheap price (and being relatively compact and wall-mounted), I would not be surprised to see this installed in every dealer that carries the i3.
     
  2. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Um, forgive me, but what's the point of buying a 24 kW DC charger when my car is equipped with a 20 kW onboard AC charger? Furthermore, even if it's for road trips to be installed by businesses, it's much too slow to provide a meaningful rate of charge. BMW ought to just equip their cars with 20 kW chargers just like Tesla.
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    So 24kW charger for $6500 from BMW or 20kW charger for $1200 + install from Tesla (HPWC)?
     
  4. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #4 stopcrazypp, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
    The onboard charger is 7.4kW on the i3.

    The point is rather than every i3 owner having to pay an extra $1500 to install a "dual charger" on the car (which the i3 likely doesn't have the room to fit anyways) and then the store pays $1200 for the wall EVSE, the owners only need the $700 DC charging option (which they would have to opt for anyways for any sort of fast charging, similar to the supercharger fee for the Model S, so this is practically "free" on the owner side).

    Even on the Model S, many people have opted not to have the dual chargers, so I don't see many people opting for dual chargers for the i3.

    Previously the 20-25kW DC chargers made less sense because they still cost a whole lot of money and were huge (the large fridge-sized Fuji Electric 25kW DC charger costs $25k, the 20kW ABB Terra SC cost about $13k), but at only $6548 and wall mounted, it'll probably cost only about the same to install this as a AC EVSE, so it starts to make a whole lot more sense than having owners pay for and carry around a 20kW onboard charger.

    The i3 will probably sell about 10k units per year and there are only 338 BMW dealers, so it costs FAR less to have a 24kW DC charger at every location than have every owner have their own 20kW on-board one. I also counted the amount of public HPWCs installed in the US and it's about 300 too.
     
  5. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    I see, so this is BMW's cop out to not build their own fast charging network. I have a Leaf and charge it very rarely at dealers. When the charger isn't broken (which is not most of the time), I get 44 kW max and it's very slow. Think of the time you spend to fill up the MS at a supercharger, but you only get 80 rated miles. Now picture 24 kW charging. That would be truly painful. Guess it beats charging at 7 kW J1772's but not by much. If BMW were to be truly innovative they should've at least come out with something on par as Nissan's 44 kW assuming that dealership rollout is their goal.
     
  6. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    The problem with this unit is that you have to have 480V 3phase service to power it. The Fuji CHAdeMO unit is a little unique in that it can take the more common 208Y120V power available at nearly every commercial building in the US. I wonder how many BMW dealers have 480V service. This is only good if you want to put it on the same service as an existing CHAdeMO charger. They should make a boost transformer that can be installed directly below it and accept 208V 3 phase power.
     
  7. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone ever expected BMW (nor any of the traditional automakers) to install their own fast charging network, only to mainly focus on dealers with perhaps a bit of expansion to other retail outlets (like Walgreens chargers and the like). I would also rather the focus not be on dealer based chargers, but it's not something I (nor do I think most people) expect traditional automakers to change.

    The 44kW Nissan charger is highly unreliable, so hopefully this improves on it (this has a better weather rating for one, which should help with the water ingress problem the Nissan chargers had). I think the price point and compact size makes it potentially more accessible for more locations than the larger chargers. Having 24kW is definitely better 7kW or worse.
     
  8. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Bingo. It works fantastic for NRG to fill its requirement of 200 CCS Combo1 chargers in California in 4 years, and that appears to be the deal BMW / Bosch made. Cheap, low powered chargers that are compatible with the higher powered CHAdeMO power requirements of 277/480 volts.

    I can't imagine that these have had any more durability testing than the minimum to get them out the door, so I guess we'll see how they hold up.

    On the BMW dealership installs, no way are they going to pay $6500 for the unit and some five figure amount to install it, so they can give out free power. Unlike Nissan and Tesla, I also don't see any of the CCS "active" consortium (GM, VW, and BMW) paying their dealers for installs.
     
  9. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I didn't notice the voltage difference, so it'll be a hit to the value of this charger in areas without such service (need to install another $4k 208V to 480V transformer).

    As for NRG, I don't see how this fulfills their 200 requirement. This charger is ChargePoint compatible, but not NRG/eVgo compatible, so it won't work if you only have a NRG/evGO subscription.

    From what I understand, BMW is announcing their "ChargeNow" service separately from this charger (it's kind of like the EZ Charge for the Leaf) and it's that service that can support both ChargePoint networks and eVgo networks, not the charger itself.

    AFAIK, Nissan never paid for the full install (unlike Tesla). They either pay $15k as a grant or the dealer can choose a free charger (also valued at $15k). So the dealer still ends up with a five figure amount (which they have to cover themselves or find some federal/state grants or credits). This being lower powered, more compact, and wall mountable might help lower that installation cost.
     
  10. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    on the go charging at 24kW compared to 135... it's like trying to make a splash by humping into a puddle! 24 kW for home would not be worth it, it's too easy and comparatively cheap to install a 20kW AC station. nothing to see here, moving on...
     
  11. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    A 24kw Frankenplug for $6500+ installation? Is this a joke? Who in their right mind would pay for something like this? This sounds like something Blink would have thought up in order to bilk more taxpayer $$$. BMW is as good as sunk if Tesla follows through with the Model 3.
     
  12. Tasdevil

    Tasdevil Member

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    I was wondering when BMW would team up with Bosch or Siemens, or other german car makers.
    I know it's only a plug, but it does mean they are talking to each other.
    BMW is not sunk. They are a huge company and arguably make some of the best Gas cars in the world.
    Their engineering is world class.
    Even elon said "if we don't sell well in Germany that's not a good sign".
    I don't think think this plug is a cop out to installing fast chargers around the globe, the range extender gas engine is.
     
  13. RandyS

    RandyS Fan of Elon

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    I'm still thinking about the original Nissan / Sumitomo DC Fast Charge promo material that said it would cost $9995. It turned out to be $18-20K and $49K total on average to install including the charger (according to Nissan).

    It could be a cheaper way for NRG eVgo to get through their SAE combo part of the settlement and spend less money to fulfill it. They already have 480 volt 3-phase power for the Nissan Chademo units at the Freedom Stations...Although the form factor (wall mount) is not a great match for the Freedom Station layout. A small tower would have been better...
     
  14. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I'm not convinced that NRG will actually deploy these. If you read the press releases, they say that ChargeNow cards will allow free charging at NRG Freedom stations. It doesn't actually say anything about NRG deploying these. I suspect that NRG will continue to deploy the ABB Terra 53C as they have started to already. I hope they don't start using the ABB Terra 53CJ (multistandard plugs on one charger) because it will mean only one DCFC at a site instead of two.
     
  15. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    That's my impression too. The announcement seems to be that the charger is Chargepoint capable but it doesn't note say it is NRG/eVgo capable. If this was designed to be used with NRG, I don't see why the charger is not made eVgo compatible also.

    The "ChargeNow" card appears to be a separate announcement (it supports both ChargePoint and eVgo).
     
  16. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    eVgo Freedom stations include L2 stations that appear to be exactly Coulomb (ChargePoint) hardware. I don't think the networking and card reader hardware in the BMW/Bosch unit would be an issue if NRG wanted to use them.

    Example:
    55366.jpg
     
  17. tess1988

    tess1988 Member

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    no that anyone knows the details of chargenow having free 30 minute access to evGO stations, as far as who is paying for what, but i think it would be smart for BMW to bundle a cash amount, $500, $1000(maybe with a time limit) or whatever when you brought the car on to your charge now card so you could use it at charge point, evgo stations etc.

    that way it helps BMW compete against tesla superchargers as far as free charging,
    it could also help the build out of charging stations(no ones going to build a gas station where only 1 car drives thru every week).
    the only thing i can think off is over time charging networks rates may rise due to the market because all these drivers are getting x amount of money when they buy a new car

    also i know this charger will be for BMW partners and centres i think it would be smart for BMW to roll them outside the dealership on the road if possible(so its not like your being forced to go to the dealership) and maybe some beaches, city centers etc and on highways.
     
  18. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realize that (early pictures of the NRG L2 units shows an AeroVironment unit). But regardless, if they intended this to be used with NRG I would expect them to announce eVgo subscription compatibility for this charger. From the whole EZ-Charge debacle, it appears even if the card reader supports it, the subscriptions are completely separate things (and that NRG and ChargePoint are not exactly on good terms).
     
  19. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    The CHAdeMO chargers at many (most) NRG sites are Nissan / Sumitomo. To my knowledge, NRG doesn't build ANY charging equipment.
     
  20. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    True for California NRG sites. However, if you look at pictures of the Texas sites on PlugShare, you will see that they did use AV equipment there for both L2 and L3.
     

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