BMW F80 M3 v Model 3 Performance--From Someone that Owns Both

[dfwatt]

sure will, you are correct and i am acutely aware

Great. But there's a reason why they don't come from the factory set up like that. The engine just will not survive. Let's compare apples to apples. Stock engine to stock EV drivetrain.

 

[ztuner]

Great. But there's a reason why they don't come from the factory set up like that. The engine just will not survive. Let's compare apples to apples. Stock engine to stock EV drivetrain.

stock to stock the m3 ran 11.9 at 116 mph and it was still faster than a P3d over 80 mph not brutally fast like it is now. since the brakes and suspension is stock i still stand behind the fact that the handling and braking is better. btw it dynoed at 408 whp on my dyno stock. Again, as stated, they are different cars and have pros and cons , i own them both and like them both. Warranty on the M3 is almost done (it was a 2016 nov) so i am thinking of going crazy mod wise.

What can i say, i like to tinker, and i can tinker more with the bmw. all i can do to the Tesla is suspension and brakes for now. BTW the reason the M3 did NOT come with more power is because they did not want it to get too close to the m5. Case in point the m3 GTS which costs about the same as a m5 but has internally the same exact motor normal m3 with some cooling mods. it makes high 400 whp. It has lesser headroom than the normal m3 due to turbos maxing out Can m3s run around the high 400, low 500 mark ? yes the can and they do.

 

[dfwatt]

stock to stock the m3 ran 11.9 at 116 mph and it was still faster than a P3d over 80 mph not brutally fast like it is now. since the brakes and suspension is stock i still stand behind the fact that the handling and braking is better. btw it dynoed at 408 whp on my dyno stock. Again, as stated, they are different cars and have pros and cons , i own them both and like them both. Warranty on the M3 is almost done (it was a 2016 nov) so i am thinking of going crazy mod wise.

What can i say, i like to tinker, and i can tinker more with the bmw. all i can do to the Tesla is suspension and brakes for now. BTW the reason the M3 did NOT come with more power is because they did not want it to get too close to the m5. Case in point the m3 GTS which costs about the same as a m5 but has internally the same exact motor normal m3 with some cooling mods. it makes high 400 whp. It has lesser headroom than the normal m3 due to turbos maxing out Can m3s run around the high 400, low 500 mark ? yes the can and they do.

That quarter mile time is at least the tenth of a second quicker than any verified time on any stock M3. Most sources suggest 12.1 to 12.3. And yes if you like to tweak stuff there are a lot of restrictions baked into the Tesla drivetrain and system that right now can't be worked around. That's okay for me, maybe that's not okay for you.

 

[ztuner]

That quarter mile time is it least the tenth of a second quicker than any verified time on any stock M3. Most sources suggest 12.1 to 12.3. And yes if you like to tweak stuff there are a lot of restrictions baked into the Tesla drivetrain and system that right now can't be worked around. That's okay for me, maybe that's not okay for you.

Actually there are guys running 11.8 stock on m3's with similar mph. i am just slower than them. you are correct the majority run low 12's. Just had to practice a LOT.

 

[raptor5244]

i have a 16 m3 and a P3D as well. My M3 is tuned by me and is faster than the P3D but not by much.

M3 - 11.2 @ 123 mph
P3D - 11.75 @ 113 mph.

M3 makes a shade over 500 whp. Its ultimately faster on the street and has better "feel" driving it hard. Less body roll and way better brakes. You have to work the m3 to go fast and you get a bigger rush. The interior space is similar between the 2 cars. The biggest difference is that 80 mph and above the M3 kills the P3D - thats to be expected i guess. For 99 % of driving the P3D will be faster on the street. I like both cars and probably will be upgrading the M3 further

For everyday use the Tesla is the go to car. a full tank costs 50 + bux on the m3 and 10 on the Tesla, its a no brainer. i do like the seats on the m3 more but dont mind the Tesla seats too much. I should probably upgrade the suspension and brakes on the tesla and sell the m3. So confused because they do different things for me.

I get what you are saying. ICE based performance vehicles offer a more raw visceral driving experience but I am a sucker for the instant torque and lack of transmission in the M3P. In an ICE base vehicle I feel like I have to dog on it to get the performance out of it but the M3P just rockets you forward at any speed with no sloppy downshift or waiting for revs to build. Handling-wise the Tesla is more than enough for the street. I agree that the braking feel is not as good as some Corvettes or Camaros I have owned but regen with one pedal driving the majority of the time is a pleasure.

 

[dfwatt]

Actually there are guys running 11.8 stock on m3's with similar mph. i am just slower than them. you are correct the majority run low 12's. Just had to practice a LOT.

Maybe you can get those times in cold weather. I don't think you can get them consistently in warmer weather. And while M3 launching takes a lot of skill and yields a lot of variation, the Tesla Model 3 is uncannily consistent. Within a tenth of a second nearly every run

 

[ztuner]

Maybe you can get those times in cold weather. I don't think you can get them consistently in warmer weather. And while M3 launching takes a lot of skill and yields a lot of variation, the Tesla Model 3 is uncannily consistent. Within a tenth of a second nearly every run

Agreed !!, as stated in my OP. M3 takes more work driving hard. btw whatever xtra power you get due to cold weather you loose in traction when its cold. i managed to pull a 1.85 ft 60 on stock wheels and tires with careful launching in shitty FL weather. The DA was horrible. The P3D is laughably repeatable. I want someone lighter than me to run the P3D it will go atleast a 10th faster.

 

[JBHinPA]

View attachment 449793


I've put a few miles now on my new-to-me 2016 F80 BMW M3, including a 400 mile trip, and have had my Model 3 for nearly a year--so I thought I'd write down some thoughts.

The Cars:

2016 BMW M3 6M, M Adaptive suspension, 425 hp
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance dual motor, 475ish hp (incl. 5 percent OTA boost at some point)

Exterior:

The BMW is an extrovert's car. I've thought of them as sort of extra, as my kid would say, particularly in the way the rear fenders flare over the back wheels, and in the front bumper that just barely escapes looking like catfish whiskers. But the look of the car has grown on me. The proportions on the M3 are nice, old-school BMW--long hood, relatively upright passenger cabin, L-shaped taillights. It works better than the E90, to my eyes, which I always thought seemed a bit narrow. The details on my car, including a blacked out grille, dark wheels, and a carbon fiber roof, are a nice contrast to the Sakhir Orange paint, which is a dramatic, fun color.

The Tesla is...well, from some angles it's pretty good, especially with 20 inch wheels. There are details you can appreciate, like the multiple curves and angles on the nose that seem far racier than a sedan has any right to have. But from other angles (esp. from the rear), it's just awkward. The proportions are nowhere near as good as the dead-sexy Model S. But it blends in better than the M3, especially because it doesn't make any noise (more on that in a minute).

Interior:

The Tesla gets a lot of *sugar* for it's spare, Spartan interior design, and for materials that some say are sub-par.

But it takes living with the car, and comparing it to something like the BMW, to really appreciate how goddamn good the Tesla is inside.

The lack of instruments in front of you is off-putting at first, but you quickly get used to the panoramic view out the front, which helps you not only in daily driving but also lets you place the car better when you start to drive fast. The center screen has its disadvantages, mostly in the lack of tactile feedback category, but the interface is so clean and intuitive that anyone can get in and make the car work immediately. The Tesla also has noticeably more space inside than the BMW, particularly for cargo--it has a bigger trunk AND a frunk AND a compartment below the trunk. Taking two kids and their gear to camp in the Tesla? Easy. Not so much in the BMW.

Notably, the things that people complain about (lack of air vents, lack of buttons, etc) are, for me at least, non-issues. The automatic climate on the Tesla is essentially set it and forget it. The steering wheel buttons control the audio functions I need them to and nothing else. The nav in the Tesla is easy to use because the large touch screen makes entering a destination simple. I do wish there were separate mirror controls, but beyond that? I really have no complaints.

Compared to the Tesla, the BMW feels like you're sitting in a hollowed-out WWII torpedo. The hood bulges up in front of you, forcing you to look around it, and the gauges and instrument panel dominate your field of view. There are buttons all over the place, but they operate in inscrutable ways that requires study to master. iDrive is better than its ever been, but it's still hard to learn, and 9 times out of 10 you'll just not bother using the nav rather than try to wrestle with destination entry. I should note that BMW actually has a nice app that works with the car, and entering nav info on that works well, but the whole setup is far kludgier than the one in the Tesla.

The seats in the BMW seem nicer at first. They're real leather, and firmer than the Tesla's, which are sort of hyperneoprene and squishy. But the BMW's seats are made for someone broader of beam than me, so I kind of rattle around in them, and after 400 miles my ass hurts in a way it doesn't driving the Tesla.

Does the BMW feel nicer inside? I guess--there are certainly more types of materials, and they're probably more expensive. But ultimately, the Tesla gets out of your way, while the BMW demands constant attention.


Driving.

Speaking of driving, what about that?

I'd like to sugarcoat this, but I can't. It's in the driving that the Tesla reveals itself to be the better car. And it's not a close thing. The BMW is near the apex of what an internal combustion engine performance car can be, but the Tesla exists in a different league, a vision of the future, a quantum leap. It's like comparing a P-51 to an Me 262.

Around town, you expect this to be true. With no clutch and instant torque, the Tesla is faster than the BMW everywhere, all the time. It's always ready to go, to jump in front of someone at a light, to nail a gap in traffic, whatever you need. It's "throttle" response is otherworldly, but it also has traction to spare--it digs and GOES, right now, no wheelspin, nothing to worry about.

The BMW requires thought, deliberation--point it straight ahead, and lay on the throttle, and it will go fast, as soon you slip the clutch just right and let the revs build a little and the turbos spool and manage the shift points. Get any of that wrong and even the Kia Forte in the next lane will beat you to 20 or 30 mph, forget about the Tesla.

And the Tesla will do it silently. The BMW's active muffler sounds like its got holes bored through it in sport and sport+. It's a pretty OK sound, though not great, but what it lacks in sonorous character it makes up for in volume. When you go fast in the BMW, people know it. Pedestrians, your passengers, people a few blocks over, everyone. When you go fast in the Tesla, people don't even notice, although your passengers might wonder why they suddenly have whiplash.

OK, so around town the Tesla is the winner. Sure. That makes sense.

But living with the two cars what surprised me is how much better the Tesla is for long-distance travel. The BMW is geared crazy-short. At highway speeds, it's turning 3000 RPM. Great because the turbos are on boost, but terrible for relaxing. The suspension is a bit jittery and overall the car just feels like work to drive at high speeds. Given its size and weight, it's a little surprising just how much of a GT the BMW isn't.

The Tesla, OTOH, doesn't vibrate. It doesn't roar, or boom. It just goes. There's tire and wind noise, of course, but not too much of either, and mostly there's just calm.

It's really remarkable how tired I was today after 400 miles in the BMW; way more than I would have been in the Tesla.

And I will say this, too--people bitch about EV charging, but after you get used to using the Tesla network, going back to getting gas feels like a huge step backward.

Isn't it faster to get gas, you ask? Well, sure--but you have to make two stops if you also need food, which I do on a 200 or 400 mile drive. First you stop for gas, and you stand there while it pumps, and then you drive off to find a place to eat. With the Tesla, you stop, plug in, go get your food, come back, unplug, and you're on your way. It's legitimately better.

Of course, if you're driving more than 400 miles or so, and have to do multiple charging stops, the Tesla might start to feel constraining. But on a 6 hour trip like I did today, it wouldn't have, at all.

And that doesn't even get into the whole buying gas for daily driving thing, which is something you don't realize you hate until you don't have to do it.

The Tesla’s phone key thing is great, as long as it works, which for me it does, but for others in my house it doesn’t reliably, and that’s the source of immense frustration. Why can’t this car just have a normal key?

For the BMW, it has the world’s most sensitive passenger detection weight sensor in the passenger seat—seriously, it’s triggered by things like a sandwich or your phone + glasses case. This would probably also drive you nuts if you regularly carried a bag; you’d have to put it on the floor.

Neither car has much steering feel. The BMW’s wheel is too big, and the Tesla’s is too small. I’d say the Tesla’s steering is better if only because it’s sharper, but driving the Porsche after either is a revelation.

Verdict

I like the BMW. I really do. It's fun to shift your own gears, and you won't find a better manual transmission sedan of recent vintage than this one. And the BMW has sounds and feelings that give their own satisfaction. I'd hate to lose cars like this forever.

But if the question is "which is the better car," the answer isn't hard. It's not remotely close. The Tesla performs all of the functions you're looking for in a performance car better than the BMW, by a lot. Plus it's more practical and easier to live with.

If you could have only one, my recommendation would be: Buy American.

I drove 2 BMW 330 Coupes with Sport and Performance packages for 16 years before I bought my Model 3 (RWD LR). One Coupe was a 5 speed and the other a 6 speed with an after market short shifter. I love the Model. But nothing corners like the BMW Coupe. Tesla accelerates faster but the Beemer corners like nothing I've ever driven.

 

[raptor5244]

I drove 2 BMW 330 Coupes with Sport and Performance packages for 16 years before I bought my Model 3 (RWD LR). One Coupe was a 5 speed and the other a 6 speed with an after market short shifter. I love the Model. But nothing corners like the BMW Coupe. Tesla accelerates faster but the Beemer corners like nothing I've ever driven.

Go drive a Corvette Grand Sport or Z06 around a corner. 1.2 lateral g and you will think the BMW is weak in the corners. The issue is unless you have a track you can’t experience it. At least with the acceleration you and enjoy short bursts of it all the time.

 

[67King]

Let's hope you don't get subpar gas or any carbon deposits in your combustion Chambers. You're probably running pretty close to pre ignition without water injection. Good luck keeping that engine alive for very long at that State Of Tune without water injection. And it's safe to say you have no engine warranty.. And none of that is any meaningful rebuttal of your lack of Level Playing Field. Come on.

I run a JB4+ on my 535i. And downpipes. But I kept is pretty mild as I learned back when messing with Merkur XR4Ti's that hot rodding a daily driver is not a good idea (but hey, a 12 second car with under $2000 invested is pretty dang fun). Replacing the turbos finally tipped me over the edge wiht the car, partially because one of the two was bad from Mitsubishi, but plugs every year, coils every other year, walnut shelling the intake ports every year. Yeah, the car was fun (until I got the M3P), but it darn sure took its toll on my free time (and wallet, thank heavens I do this myself). Besides, you just simply cannot use all that on the street. I used to think that you could, until I started driving on the track.

Car and Driver for 12.2 for the 1/4 mile, Motor Trend got 12.5. Dodge Hellcat, FWIW, does it in 11.7. But whatever, all that is well and fine, but like I said, you just can't use it on the street. As was pointed out earlier, over teh speed limit, the fast ICE cars will likely pull away from the Tesla.

 

[JST]

Well, as I allude in my review up top, neither the BMW nor the Tesla is the equal of a true sports car when it comes to handling and feel. My other, other car is a 987 Boxster S, and the steering feel on that car is intense compared to the BMW and Tesla; it also handles significantly better, in no small part because it is so much lighter.

That said, the track tests I've seen suggest that when it comes to absolute grip the Tesla is every bit the equal of the BMW, an idea that is borne out driving them back to back.

I have no doubt that the BMW would be better on the track than the Tesla if you were doing a DE session, for no other reason than that it would last longer (assuming you did some basic prep, like high temp brake fluid). But I wouldn't really want to take either car to the track; something like the Boxster would be a substantially better choice than either one of them.

 

[diver110]

Nice post. FWIW, I compared the 3 (highest performance version) to my Porsche Cayenne Turbo. The 3 beats it in every performance category, handling, acceleration, etc. Similar to what you said about the BMW (I used to own a 5), if I do it just right, I can do 0-60 around the reported 4.9 seconds, but depending on what the speed is and the circumstances, it often is not all that fast, especially compared to the 3. But, unlike your BMW, the Cayenne is very comfortable on long drives. I had trouble with the 3 seats after a short drive, as did my girlfriend. I am exploring solutions, but the seats are a major drawback for me with the 3 to date.

 

[TJ73]

Now in my 40s, I've started to hate launching ICE cars. I want to feel the power & speed that I paid for off the line, but I couldn't help but feel like a total antisocial douche bag creating a scene doing it. Now, I can do it all in silence and it's easier, cheaper & faster than ever. No drama, all smiles. Launch control is so last century...

 

[hocr]

Now in my 40s, I've started to hate launching ICE cars. I want to feel the power & speed that I paid for off the line, but I couldn't help but feel like a total antisocial douche bag creating a scene doing it. Now, I can do it all in silence and it's easier, cheaper & faster than ever. No drama, all smiles. Launch control is so last century...

I hear you. Definitely takes a little skill and can be difficult to hit the posted numbers (especially with manual)

 

[pwrusr]

great write-up and great comparison. I agree with everything you noted. I have a P3D- and It is going to be hard for me to let go of my F80 but the Tesla does do everything better EXCEPT the looks, I like how agressive the M3 is. The M3 was my dream car growing up since the e46 and I've finally got a chance to own one. It will be bittersweet.

 

[dfwatt]

Now in my 40s, I've started to hate launching ICE cars. I want to feel the power & speed that I paid for off the line, but I couldn't help but feel like a total antisocial douche bag creating a scene doing it. Now, I can do it all in silence and it's easier, cheaper & faster than ever. No drama, all smiles. Launch control is so last century...

Plus one on all that. The lack of drama is one of its best features because it makes the cars amazing performance envelope fully usable. No wheelspin, no noise, it just disappears down the road. People who are in the dark about Teslas are left scratching their heads as to why it's so quiet and how it could move away that quickly.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

Plus one on all that.

That goes double for me. I am astonished every time I'm first in line at the traffic light with an absolutely safe and clear path to the speed limit and I gently lay into the throttle and by the time I've reached 50 mph everybody is two football fields behind me. It gets even funnier when they pass me speeding and are looking at the car like 'What the hell is that?'

 

[Kilotango74]

Plus one on all that. The lack of drama is one of its best features because it makes the cars amazing performance envelope fully usable. No wheelspin, no noise, it just disappears down the road. People who are in the dark about Teslas are left scratching their heads as to why it's so quiet and how it could move away that quickly.

No drama cause it all translates to the pavement instead of getting wasted spinning tires and pitching sideways. It just goes!

 

[M3FNATIK]

Not to thread jack, but I too have an F80 M3, but it's a Competiton model in individual Laguna Seca blue, in addition to an E46 M3 convertible, and also a TM3 Stealh. They are definitely different cars for different purposes. The Stealth outperforms my F80 Comp except in handling and braking. I would never take the Stealth to a track but the F80 was born on the Nurburgring and was designed as a trackable street car. The cooling system is excellent and the rated 444whp is a worst case scenario. In cooler weather it can put down 475whp. It does not heat soak either. I've driven it on the Nurburgring and it's more capable than my skillset, bone stock. With the DCT it is smooth like an automatic yet can power shift faster than any human. It is still about 90% as fun as driving a stick except you can't mess up. Sorry, I'm no Mario Andreti and can't afford to mishift and blow my engine haha.

The E46 M3 is my weekend top down car. It's very fun to drive for short bursts. I say short bursts bc the stiff suspension and direct feedback of the engine and steering just wears you out. It's been fully restored with some added modern features like BT streaming integration into the factory system, JL sub, and stage 1 BSW speakers to make it more enjoyable. But it's far from sounding anywhere as good as the Tesla's system. I prefer to only drive it with it's top down, or else I'd just drive my F80. It's an SMG car but it's still just as fun. The SMG is plenty fast but can be a little clunky, which makes it feel more like a human shifting than the DCT. Either way, I love the scream of the S54 when ripping it towards it's 8k redline. It's the last inline 6 race derived engine BMW built and is now a modern classic. I can't part with it despite only driving it maybe 2k miles a year, if that. Don't even get me started on the maintenance required...even the oil is called "Liquid gold" at $15 a liter (6.5L needed) bc it's race oil developed specifically for BMW's M engines from 2001-2010 (S54, S62, S65, S85).

The Stealth is a more comfortable everyday car and fwy cruiser. We use it for almost everything. It has replaced my F80 as the long trip family car. To the OPs point, the F80 requires you to be focused if you want to drive it fast. And by fast, I mean very fast bc it was built for the Autobahn. So yes, by the end of a long journey, I am definitely mentally tired. I made the same 240 mile trip in both cars and despite being hung over tired, the AP did a lot of the mentally taxing hwy cruising and traffic jam driving. This alone was one of the biggest selling points for us in getting the Stealth as a 3rd car. If I had to commute to work (which I don't), then most likely I would have sold one of the M3s and gotten another Model 3 for myself.

The F80 now only is driven for pleasure bc it's so visceral. I have replaced the exhaust with one from the CS and it sounds superb without being obnoxious. If I need to run an errand, most likely it is in the Stealth. It's just the opposite of driving my BMWs. Mostly uninvolved and relaxing. No exhaust rumble or overly stiff suspension either. Just a buttery smooth car. If I want to go for a fun drive, well, it just depends on if I want FI grumbling torquey power or normally aspirated screaming redline pulls.

My girls think my F80 is slow now bc they know what 0-60 in 2.9 feels like. They actually hate it bc of the head slap it causes and dizziness that ensues afterwards when I for it without warning them. This was never an issue in the F80 haha.

The other good part about the Tesla is the sound system is more enjoyable bc it's not fighting the exhaust and engine sounds. Never having to visit a gas station to fill up even when I drive it all out like a madman is an awesome feeling, and it doesn't cost me $60 either haha. And there's virtually no maintenance except for tires and maybe brakes in like 100k miles? Man, lots of practical wins here.

Overall, the F80 is the peak of BMW engineering for ICE (until the G80 M3 comes out, but that car could be hideous based on leaked photos). I'm keeping mine forever since it's still super fun to drive, looks aggressive and classy at the same time, and has a ton of sentimental value (we drove it all over Europe during our Euro delivery). But the future is EVs and we are enjoying that future very much in the Model 3.

 

[neezer]

stock P3D sits too high and damper is too soft for track. You also need to upgrade your brake pad, brake fluid and remove the rotor heatshield to have sufficient brake on the track. Otherwise you'll be disappointed. Canyon carving won't be an issue.

I have gone to the track a couple of times with a crew who's leader (he owns the biz basically, and manages the events) had an F80 M3 2015 manual, with the regular brakes, and with modded suspension. He told me he ABSOLUTELY needed to upgrade the suspension for track running, and indeed, another guy (who can definitely drive) behind us in his stock M4 DCT, couldn't keep up at all because of that suspension HOWEVER, the brakes were sorely lacking. He couldn't do more than 3 laps before having to stop and cool them, and he would ask me to help roll the car back and forth in the staging lot to ensure the pads don't float stationary at one point by the hot rotors.

So even an F80 M3 has sorely lacking-for-track-use brakes. Of course, they offer the ceramics option ... for EIGHT GRAND

Recently, he got rid of it and got a 2018 M3 with the ceramics. And it is a competition pack one too now, which he told me, is much closer to what he'd need for track running out of the factory, because of that CP.

Needless to say, if BM-friggin-W with their enormous know-how and the legendary lineup of ///M3 can't do brakes properly nor suspension (without CP) for track work, it speaks volumes to Tesla's achievement with the M3P for their FIRST TIME TO BAT in how good it is overall. We all know, even the very patriotic Europeans have posted track battle articles and videos showing the M3P beating the likes of the M3/M4 on pretty much all the tracks (this is even before the power updates on 2019). And Chris Harris also was flabbergasted that it beat the reigning handling champ, the Alpha Romeo Quadri, on a tight AutoCross run, by a full half second (and we know now his Tesla M3P was definitely power limited with dots on the accel, so imagine with optimal battery conditions and some more practice in the Tesla).

In summary, given that NOBODY else can give you an awesome track weapon for under 100k let alone near the M3P price, out of the factory, I would not complain about the M3P's stock suspension and brakes. In fact I personally find the brake feel of my M3P to be every bit as good as most BMWs (no offense to Audi and Benz lovers here but most of those have crappy brake feel, even the RS/AMGs historically). Sure, an M3 comp pack with ceramics is close to ready for the track, but what's that, 90 grand?