BMW folks comments on Tesla

[Hank42]

I let my M3(BMW M3,that is) owner friend borrow my M3(Tesla M3) for a day. He returned the car and was really impressed. He told me it was more fun than his M3, handled better, and was more nimble. He really liked it!

I asked him when he's gonna get one, and his response was "Dude, if BMW made it, I'd be all over it".
Soooo there's the "He would not be caught dead" in something that BMW did not produce, even though he did acknowledge, to his comparison, it was fun and exciting. He's a BMW fanboi just like we have Tesla fanbois. He doesn't Hate on Telsa, just he's bought into his brand.

Cars are like clothes to some people, and if you're a "Levis" kinda guy, you're never gonna wear "Wrangler" - no matter how good they fit.

 

[brkaus]

I had a bmw m3 and a 330ci.

Now I have a model s & a model 3.

To each their own.

 

[Konicom04]

I had a bmw m3 and a 330ci.

Now I have a model s & a model 3.

To each their own.

Btw -
my 330ci went up in flames ,
The M3 almost did, yanked the negative off the battery in time

 

[preilly44]

Agreed. I would assume Tesla and BMW owners are of the same demography, mostly car enthusiast. Have you driven or tested any of the i4 or iX or iX BMW cars recently? I am really interest in hearing any experiences from Tesla owners who also then tried EV BMWs to help me know more about the experience of owning both (which is always different than renting one to test it out!).

We test drove an i4 and it felt anemic. It wasn't an i4M (none were available) it just had the M appearance package so that might have been part of it. We liked the screens better than the EQE AMG (which also felt extremely slow) but without being able to test drive the i4M without ordering one, we moved on to the Taycan. We test drove the base RWD Taycan and that was the slowest (accelerating) out of the three cars we test drove (I think it's 0-60 is like 4.8 seconds). We then test drove the Taycan 4S and my wife ended up going with that. We also test drove a Plaid S but it was the middle of winter and it had winter tires so we couldn't truly get a good feel for it but my wife didn't think it handled "sporty" enough. While the Taycan drives better than any car we've ever had (many Tesla's, BMW's, Audi's, a Corvette, etc) softwarewise, it is a dinosaur compared to Tesla. From the profile not remembering basic things, Homelink not auto opening the garage, having to turn the car on/off or the even having to leave your car at service for four days for a software update....it's crazy how far behind they are. Rant over.

 

[zoomer0056]

What keeps you in your ICE?

Great question!

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

Is an iPhone a luxury item? If so, then I think a Tesla would be considered one too.
On a personal level, I don't think the Model 3/Y are luxury vehicles. They are nice! And they have TONS of features most cars lack. My wife loves her Model Y and would not change it for anything. It is like a high-end SUV or crossover in her opinion. I had a Model 3, that car was great. Simple interior like the Y, looked nice, clean... things were comfortable but did it cross into luxury? Probably not.

I did just buy a Model S, and my intent was to buy the highest end EV on the market. I want all the toys, and I want to go fast. I want the smartest vehicle on the streets and one with tons of range that will leave super-cars in its dust. Can a BMW do that? not for $100k. Probably not for $250k. So as a BMW owner... what does the car offer that is Luxury? Is it the seats? The interior? The ride? Is it the lines of the car? Is it the repair bill (joking... kinda)?

I drove a BMW when I was stationed in Germany for a few months (long story) and it was a nice car, with a nice ride and a comfortable interior. It was definitely better than the Chevy I had at home. I loved how smooth the engine was... but as I compare it to my Tesla vehicles, the Tesla engine is inherently smoother and more powerful, the Tesla's are WAY more comfortable to drive (yay autopilot!) the seats are about the same, the ride is rougher.

So, what does the BMW bring to the table? Currently, I don't see it.

P.S. OOO yes. The infamous Tesla delivery nightmare... that is probably what really keeps Tesla out of the luxury vehicle category. So far, for my Model S, I took delivery early February. So far, it has been at Tesla SC and now a body shop for closing in on 5 weeks... Would that happen with a BMW NO F-ing WAY. So, if I was to have an honest debate on why Tesla is or is not a luxury vehicle, that (in my opinion) is the strongest argument against the brand being truly a luxury vehicle. Experiences like mine are not rare sadly. Delivery, attention to details like panel gaps and quality of installation are hallmarks of what makes a Chevy a Chevy and a BMW a luxury item/symbol.

 

[snorp]

The infamous Tesla delivery nightmare

Don't forget to include the nightmare that is Tesla service. I would pay an additional fee on top of my Tesla's sale price if Mercedes could service it. I can't stand arguing with someone through an app only to have them close out the service appointment because they can't duplicate in 10 minutes something that I experience a few times a day. A luxury car company offers a more premium service experience.

 

[savetheplanet]

It depends on what you define as luxury. I used to think it was defined by interior materials, fit and finish, ride comfort, and interior noise. Although many of those still apply, convenience has definitely became top priority for me when defining luxury now. For context, I currently have a 2022 Model S w/ 15k miles on it and came from driving many mid-full size luxury vehicles.

Here are the list of conveniences that I cannot give up after owning a Tesla:

• Reliably charged vehicle everyday (no more gas stations)
• Automatic GPS located garage door opener (this was something I didn't know I wanted until I had it)
• Climate control of all functions when not in car (HVAC, heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel)
• Software updates (love that I got Apple Music with a recent update)
• FSD beta (I recently had a bout with gout and it seriously saved me from having to painfully drive)
• Safest car in the world (can't put a price on the peace of mind)
• Less maintenance visits to the dealer
• Garage doesn't stink after coming back from a drive (my wife hated this about ICE cars)
• Way less residual heat in the garage after a drive especially during the summer time
• Bioweapon defense mode (in CA during fire season this is a must need)

Some of these may not be as important to others, but the sum of these features make a completely different experience in terms of convenience of owning a car. I still miss the quiet, vault like cabin and the plushness of a Mercedes S-Class, but I wouldn't give up the above features for it.

 

[HVM]

Was this the reason why they are salty?

 

[ucmndd]

Is an iPhone a luxury item?

No, IMO.

"Premium" technology with a focus on user experience? Sure.

87% of US teenagers have an iPhone. That's not luxury.

 

[Mr.Stark]

No, IMO.

"Premium" technology with a focus on user experience? Sure.

87% of US teenagers have an iPhone. That's not luxury.

An $800 to $1000 phone is a luxury for most people.

 

[ucmndd]

An $800 to $1000 phone is a luxury for most people.

Not most Americans, if 9 of 10 teenagers have one.

 

[zoomer0056]

Not most Americans, if 9 of 10 teenagers have one.

I did a little research:

Well, google has to be correct:

 

[978650]

Thanks; so what's the point or motivation of staying with Tesla now if other true luxury brands also started to offer EV vehicles (at least stating 2022/2023)? I have not driven i7 yet, but with the price of S and i7 being almost the same, the comparison on paper seems to lead to only one answer.... What am I missing (if any)?

I guess it depends. If you're after luxury ("a state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense") then I'd stick with the German manufacturers while they last.

If you're after sheer technology, innovation and starting with a clean slate, then it's Tesla or (when they become widely available in the West) Chinese brands.

There's also the convenience of a zero hassle charging network, decent range and indecent power and acceleration.

Also, German manufacturers are finished; the EV boat has sailed without them. They might still be around in 15 years time but not as dominant players (probably gone the way of UK brands, all bought by the Chinese or the Indians).

I'm German by the way. Used to drive Audi because of the great comfort and safety features, but compared to Tesla they now feel so clunky and outdated. I have no first hand experience with Chinese makes but I've heard good things about them.

One other thing I didn't enjoy about the German car experience with getting ripped off with constant "scheduled services" and extortionate prices for everything as well as the lack of price transparency.

I hope this helps.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

What keeps you in your ICE?

For highway long trips? No way ever I would consider Tesla. Tesla for me is a consideration for in-town short-medium trips/driving only.

What keeps my ICE for long highway trips?
* Because I need the massage seat (yes they are truly functional on the GLS 580 and my S-560. Just fine on the BMW X7. This is a must have feature, not to mention that also my rear seats have executive seats so my wife and I can switch during our long monthly 8-hr trip.
* Because my kids won’t set quite without true rear seat entertainment.
* Because I appreciate the anti-glare anti-dazzle headlights that I can code my BMW to in 5-min to match euro spec’s for the 3 hours of night driving that I do for every part of our monthly 8-hr trip.
* Because the drive comfort of both my ICU is still more exceptional on highways (at least based on my 1-day rental experience of Model X.) Dynamic handling package on the X7, and the Magic Body Control on the S-class, makes any other vehicle feels like trash on highways.
* Because I must have cooled seats (not sure if all Tesla’s offer that) which I need long trips.
* Because no-way I would consider a stop for 30 min (maybe twice) to re-fuel (or charge). 5-min per stop is our max stop for our monthly 8 hour single route trip.
* Because the ICE is still nearly silent (I don’t even hear it, so why do I care if it’s ICE or EV for that particular use?
* Because the 525 hp is good enough for us on high-way.
* Because I want my hands to rest on full true leather. I hate plastic or vinyl interiors on highway but fine for in-town lower speed.
* Because I like the Heads-up display that I’ve had on all my cars since 2007.

For my specific use “for highway long trips”, Tesla still does not offer any of my must-have and does not offer any advantage in return. It falls short on all our must-have features for long trips.

My interest in Tesla is for an in-town daily drive and home-work drive (nearly 50-60 miles during working days). There is no way I can see the comfort and luxury in it to support our long trip so for that my “ICU’ vehicles have to remain the main one. But yes, I think for in-town as a replacement for our X5 it seems that the Model X or Model S can be a good fit with not many things to compromise.

 

[gillmj24]

If (car has auto dimming side view mirrors) Then
Car = luxury car
Endif

To each his own

 

[E90alex]

If (car has auto dimming side view mirrors) Then
Car = luxury car
Endif

To each his own

But what if said auto dimming side view mirrors are dumb and just dim to a set amount no matter what based on time of day instead of dynamically adjusting the dimming to the actual amount of light/glare behind you?

 

[ucmndd]

What keeps my ICE for long highway trips?

<long list of things that have absolutely nothing to do with internal combustion engines>

The only thing on this list that I see as relevant in a discussion of EV vs ICE is charging.

Yes, if you drive for 8 hours at a time and absolutely must get there in the absolute shortest time possible, pissing in Gatorade bottles and the like to avoid the indignity of unnecessarily lowering ones average velocity, then an EV is absolutely not a consideration in 2023.

For more reasonable approaches to transport, I’ve found the charging stops to be almost negligible. In 6 years and tens of thousands of miles road tripping all over the western US with teens, pre-teens, and 40-something adults, it’s exceedingly rare for us to stop to charge when we wouldn’t have otherwise stopped for something else - food, bio-breaks, whatever. In reviewing some of our recent road trips, I estimate charging stops add maybe 10% extra time to the day’s travel vs our “normal” pace in an ICE car. Max.

But like I said, if you can’t bear the thought of taking your manicured hands off the genuine leather steering wheel for an unnecessary instant and shortest duration travel is the primary consideration, an EV isn’t gonna be for you. Not for many many more years at least.

 

[gillmj24]

But what if said auto dimming side view mirrors are dumb and just dim to a set amount no matter what based on time of day instead of dynamically adjusting the dimming to the actual amount of light/glare behind you?

Maybe but percentage wise there are too few cars that have this beneficial (though not perfectly executed) feature. My 2015 S and 2003 SAAB 9-5 are the only two I have had with it. I'm surprised it isn't an initially "luxurious" feature that has made its way to econoboxes like my mid-trim Leaf having a heated steering wheel.

 

[MorrisTheMoose]

Probably nobody cares here, but wanted to hear what you all think about the conversation below in one of the BMW forums. I am at the border of switching to Tesla but seems like most folks recommends against the idea, and then i came across that topic. Let's be honest, why opinions around Tesla are always skewed towards the extreme negative except for those who currently own one?

Tesla Is on Its Way to Being America's Luxury King Again... wait what??

Tesla Is on Its Way to Being America's Luxury King Again... wait what??

g07.bimmerpost.com

I just picked up our Model Y in the last two weeks and came from driving various BMWs over last 20 years ( all ICE). I had to set my expectations lower when buying the Tesla because I wanted to have an EV with good technology for road trips and run groceries. Tesla does this well. I knew the Tesla Model Y is no luxury car and calibrated my expectations. The seats are uncomfortable , cabin materials are cheap compared to the leather finishing /comfort of the BMW X5. The Tesla hood and passenger doors have no heft to them. The carpet quality of the Tesla is a joke. But the Tesla Model Y pricing reflects this in my opinion now that it was recently reduced by $13K. I am not getting the luxury feeling of a BMW or build quality but I am not paying that premium. I bought the Telsa Model Y as a good utility EV with state of the art technology with charging convenience across the US.