BMW folks comments on Tesla

[zoomer0056]

For highway long trips? No way ever I would consider Tesla. Tesla for me is a consideration for in-town short-medium trips/driving only.

What keeps my ICE for long highway trips?
* Because I need the massage seat (yes they are truly functional on the GLS 580 and my S-560. Just fine on the BMW X7. This is a must have feature, not to mention that also my rear seats have executive seats so my wife and I can switch during our long monthly 8-hr trip.
* Because my kids won’t set quite without true rear seat entertainment.
* Because I appreciate the anti-glare anti-dazzle headlights that I can code my BMW to in 5-min to match euro spec’s for the 3 hours of night driving that I do for every part of our monthly 8-hr trip.
* Because the drive comfort of both my ICU is still more exceptional on highways (at least based on my 1-day rental experience of Model X.) Dynamic handling package on the X7, and the Magic Body Control on the S-class, makes any other vehicle feels like trash on highways.
* Because I must have cooled seats (not sure if all Tesla’s offer that) which I need long trips.
* Because no-way I would consider a stop for 30 min (maybe twice) to re-fuel (or charge). 5-min per stop is our max stop for our monthly 8 hour single route trip.
* Because the ICE is still nearly silent (I don’t even hear it, so why do I care if it’s ICE or EV for that particular use?
* Because the 525 hp is good enough for us on high-way.
* Because I want my hands to rest on full true leather. I hate plastic or vinyl interiors on highway but fine for in-town lower speed.
* Because I like the Heads-up display that I’ve had on all my cars since 2007.

For my specific use “for highway long trips”, Tesla still does not offer any of my must-have and does not offer any advantage in return. It falls short on all our must-have features for long trips.

My interest in Tesla is for an in-town daily drive and home-work drive (nearly 50-60 miles during working days). There is no way I can see the comfort and luxury in it to support our long trip so for that my “ICU’ vehicles have to remain the main one. But yes, I think for in-town as a replacement for our X5 it seems that the Model X or Model S can be a good fit with not many things to compromise.

Great, all that is good. Will you be getting a Tesla for local driving?

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Great, all that is good. Will you be getting a Tesla for local driving?

Yes, I am researching the Tesla Model Y (or Model S) option versus the new 5-series 530e PHEV, 2024 i5 coming this summer, or the BMW iX option. This will be a replacement of our X5 used as local driving vehicle now. If we consider the Model S, we should also add the i7 to the list of options but then the total investment becomes slightly higher than I wish to invest, but it’s a possibility too.

 

[ninefiveone]

Overthinking this massively.

Given what already is on the internet was not helpful, asking on the internet will net even less useful responses. It’s literally asking for biased answers to your question.

Go test drive one or rent one for a week.

Buy what you like. Ignore what other people say or think.

Done.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Overthinking this massively.

Given what already is on the internet was not helpful, asking on the internet will net even less useful responses. It’s literally asking for biased answers to your question.

Go test drive one or rent one for a week.

Buy what you like. Ignore what other people say or think.

Done.

I agree, and with all due respect I am certainly taking most of the comments with the understanding they are naturally biased; however some are still useful. My final decision certainly will depend on the test drive or rental, but also hearing from others can help me to know what to focus on during the test drive/rent.

 

[Rocket_man]

Fromer BMW 3-series owner, nearly 20 years ago now. Loved that car but it spent so much time at the dealership that I sold it a month before it went out of warranty. I loved the car but didn't trust it and didn't want to keep spending money on fixing it. But it drove on rails (E46 coupe) and the inline 6 pulled nicely.

After several more ICE cars I decided to try an EV. Still early in the EV era so the only EV I seriously considered was a Tesla. I Turo'd two versions of the Model 3 which was hugely helpful. Tesla had no cars to test and 30 minutes is not much of a test. A Turo gave me 24 hours to do what I wanted. I highly suggest this.

No Tesla is not a luxury brand. Not many luxury features in the car and the customer service is really really bad. I have Tesla Solar and their customer service is equally horrible. Their employees are generally pretty good and want to be right by you, but the system they are given to work within is fundamentally flawed. They want to deal with you through their app and you can't even talk to a human. I'm pushing 60 and I really really hate this. The one highlight from Tesla Service though was when I needed my headlight replaced. I contacted service through the app. I had to send a picture of the headlight malfunctioning, but once they believed me, they sent a tech to my house and replace the headlight in my garage. Now I don't think BMW is ever going to do that. But on the whole I dread the day something seriously goes wrong with my car, or God forbid I'm in an accident. As long as I don't have to interact with Tesla I really love the car. When I think of Tesla Customer service I feel instantly angry. Tesla says they are working on this but they have said that for a while.

But I really love the car. I don't care if it is luxury or not. I does what I expect a car to do and it does it well and effortlessly. It does things I've never had any car do before like automatic software updates, cabin overheat protection, turning on the A/C from my office before I walk to the car. I like the infotainment system, and I really like being able to charge at home and the lack of heat in my garage when I drive home (in TX this is important). In the winter the car is actually cold to the touch. I get in the car is and goes like snot and drives better than any car I've owned. It is fun to drive and since I have solar it is pretty much free to drive. But I sure wish it had ventilated seats!!!!

 

[father_of_6]

For highway long trips? No way ever I would consider Tesla. Tesla for me is a consideration for in-town short-medium trips/driving only.

Really? I got the impression you'd already done some research, but this sounds like you've only just heard of Tesla yesterday.

I've done several cross state / multi-state drives and find the EV pattern to be much better in several ways.

Tesla owners are free to roam... the system works, and it works well.

The idea that "electric cars are for in-town only" is very antiquated. You may already have an anti-EV bias and not even know it.

I strongly suggest you rent a Model 3 from Hertz and take a road trip. I think it'll completely transform your view, if you're willing to keep an open mind about it.

 

[Watts_Up]

I am surprised that there was no comment about the BMW motors using brushes.

 

[Snerruc]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve owned almost all the “luxury “ brands. Meh. To me walking away from the car and it taking care of itself is luxury. Getting in and stepping on a pedal a driving off is luxury. Etc, etc. 30 buttons on the dash and a 400 page manual don’t float my boat( looking at you MB).

 

[ForDesign]

My background: former automotive designer and current product designer.

My take: the traditionally expressed idea of ‘luxury’ in the consumer automotive space has an opportunity to be redefined as it was by the German automakers vs their American counterparts in the 80s.

Not having to go to a dealer for most issues.
Buying a car in 15 minutes vs an hour.
Streamlined phone Integration.
Seamless charging experience.
UX/OS advantages/speed.
OTA update integration.

While these might not fall into the ‘traditional’ luxury mindsets, for some, buying time IS a luxury. Overlooking that margin degree of superior assembly execution, surface polymer preferences and paint quality, you are buying a more time consuming product in the EV space if you go in another direction currently.

Some of that is undoubtedly and unfortunately a byproduct of legacy automotive and won’t be going anywhere for a least a few generations. So it will be a question of if the general public, which is distinctly more influential from a overall sales impact POV that the loud minority on Internet forums, shift their viewpoints on trading time for the advantages of legacy product process.

 

[snorp]

Thanks for your detailed response @CTruck_BMW .

Adding my opinions.

Because I need the massage seat

I had this on a BMW and MB. It was rarely used and not sure that it improved my driving experience. I definitely don't miss it, but understand that it could be important to you.

* Because my kids won’t set quite without true rear seat entertainment.

My kids all have their own ipads and headphones. It was always a challenge getting them to agree on a movie in the rear, so the ipads work better for us. And I can listen to music while they watch movies or play games.

Because I appreciate the anti-glare anti-dazzle headlights

I agree with this. My headlights are good enough to not be considered a safety factor, and I don't feel like I ever outdrive them, but they could be better.

Because the drive comfort of both my ICU is still more exceptional

The Raven suspension is on par with or better than my last GLS. You have to configure it to your taste, but I find the comfort setting absorbs bumps better than anything that I can remember riding in.

Because I must have cooled seats

I have this and enjoy it very much in the summer.

Because no-way I would consider a stop for 30 min

I do understand your perspective here. I used to be the piss in a bottle type of guy wanting to beat my best time no matter the destination. It is a mindset change to completely ignore time, which allows me to arrive a bit later, but totally relaxed and tension free. Maybe that's why I don't miss the massaging seats.

Because the ICE is still nearly silent

This is the number one thing I miss about the GLS. Finding the right tires and replacing them well before they are worn out mitigates this a bit, but Tesla has a lot of opportunity for improvement here.

Because the 525 hp is good enough for us on high-way

It's not just hp, it's throttle response and torque at all speeds that make the X more enjoyable on the highway. The ability to merge into traffic, or enter a highway ahead of a semi in the right lane is never a concern. My biggest concern is having things fly around in the cabin when accelerating.

Because I want my hands to rest on full true leather.

My steering wheel is real leather, I think. I probably couldn't tell the difference. My arms touch the center console and the door arm rest, but my hands are either generally on the steering wheel or my lap.

Because I like the Heads-up display

I had this and don't miss it. Again, it's a mindset change to allow autopilot to manage speed and lane centering. I enjoy not needing to know what my speed is. It's freeing. I set my max speed, set my following distance, and occasionally switch lanes, but not nearly as often as I used to.

As far as why my X is better for my use case. Safer, more cargo, autopilot, more room in third row, better visibility, way less buttons and gauges.

I often drive 8 plus hours to Disney or the beach with my wife and kids, and we all arrive at our destination much more relaxed than we used to in the GLS. A lot of that has to do with me not degrading into an a-hole driver over that timeframe as a result of other drivers doing things that negatively impact my trip time. I just don't care as much about that any more, and it's wonderful.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Really? I got the impression you'd already done some research, but this sounds like you've only just heard of Tesla yesterday.

I've done several cross state / multi-state drives and find the EV pattern to be much better in several ways.

Tesla owners are free to roam... the system works, and it works well.

The idea that "electric cars are for in-town only" is very antiquated. You may already have an anti-EV bias and not even know it.

I strongly suggest you rent a Model 3 from Hertz and take a road trip. I think it'll completely transform your view, if you're willing to keep an open mind about it.

Like I said, nearly 90% of my points have nothing to do with EV vs ICU ( I can care less about what is causing my wheels to spin on a road trip) but what I care about is those features (for long trips). Once Tesla offers any of these features then I can consider a Tesla for highway trips. Right now, for me and many others, it is a no-good for long trips. Go ahead and review my list again and u will understand that my point is about the features regardless of it being EV of ICU, and right now Tesla as a brand does not offer them. Hence, my interest in Tesla remains only as a replacement for our in-town/parks/schools/groceries/local daily drive, but not for our family/luxury/long-trips.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Thanks for your detailed response @CTruck_BMW .

Adding my opinions.

I had this on a BMW and MB. It was rarely used and not sure that it improved my driving experience. I definitely don't miss it, but understand that it could be important to you.
//..removed to save space..// , and it's wonderful.

Thank you very much, very useful response, and am glad that you were able to confirm/understand and see some of my points being valid, hence the decision of not considering a Tesla now for highway and instead am considering one for in-town driving. I hope in the future at some point Tesla would include many of these packages that I consider as a must-have, but seems like Musk is so focused on keeping it simple and affordable (though for the S and X prices, seems like he has a lot of margin to also include those features).

 

[Snerruc]

Thank you very much, very useful response, and am glad that you were able to confirm/understand and see some of my points being valid, hence the decision of not considering a Tesla now for highway and instead am considering one for in-town driving. I hope in the future at some point Tesla would include many of these packages that I consider as a must-have, but seems like Musk is so focused on keeping it simple and affordable (though for the S and X prices, seems like he has a lot of margin to also include those features).

Just a different perspective, I’m 83 and often drive 800+ miles in a day to visit my son. I stop 3 times for quick meals and a wash up stop before I get there. It is simply not possible to do this in any other car as actually driving that far is beyond my ability at this age. I’m basically a passenger most of the time. Total time for 826 miles usually 13 hours.

 

[OxBrew]

Don't forget to check Mercedes (MQB? IDK, the Y equivalent EV).

I love our Y, but I won't get another Tesla. The Mercedes head's up display is superior, and I bet it has all the features you want.

The kicker for me is having to research every software update to see what features are changed or removed, and taking the risk that phantom braking will come back. It's exhausting.

 

[Snerruc]

Don't forget to check Mercedes (MQB? IDK, the Y equivalent EV).

I love our Y, but I won't get another Tesla. The Mercedes head's up display is superior, and I bet it has all the features you want.

The kicker for me is having to research every software update to see what features are changed or removed, and taking the risk that phantom braking will come back. It's exhausting.

Do they have superior range? Thousands of charge points?car plans all stops?car drives itself? My Teslas are far superior to MB in reliability in my experience and that of friends. At 75 mph my S usually gets 260 to 300 miles before needing to charge and is bugging me that’s it’s done before I’m through eating. Usually 220 - 240 after a stop. I could go on and on.

 

[OxBrew]

Do they have superior range? Thousands of charge points?car plans all stops?car drives itself? My Teslas are far superior to MB in reliability in my experience and that of friends. At 75 mph my S usually gets 260 to 300 miles before needing to charge and is bugging me that’s it’s done before I’m through eating. Usually 220 - 240 after a stop. I could go on and on.

For the OP, sounds like this will be a local car only. I agree about road trips, for that you need the Tesla network, and the patience to take a bit longer. I actually prefer stopping for 10-30 minutes every few hours, now that I've tried it. Not in a hurry usually. We just leave a couple hours earlier than we would otherwise. After 8 hours in the car, I feel like I drove one hour.

But that's not the OP's question.

 

[E90alex]

Do they have superior range? Thousands of charge points?car plans all stops?car drives itself? My Teslas are far superior to MB in reliability in my experience and that of friends. At 75 mph my S usually gets 260 to 300 miles before needing to charge and is bugging me that’s it’s done before I’m through eating. Usually 220 - 240 after a stop. I could go on and on.

Range and charging network is not everyones #1 priority for an EV. If you’re someone that rarely goes on road trips then why sacrifice comfort and features 95% of the time just for a little bit of time saved charging once or twice a year.

 

[ForDesign]

Range and charging network is not everyones #1 priority for an EV. If you’re someone that rarely goes on road trips then why sacrifice comfort and features 95% of the time just for a little bit of time saved charging once or twice a year.

You are correct, and some people may not want to sit in a dealership for service or have to search for footage after an accident.

Some might (especially the smartphone generation) appreciate seamless phone key and app integration/features.

Luxury, comfort, and features can have many meanings, and if you are open to many interpretations of such, you can see all benefits to all approaches.

Interestingly enough, the Model 3 and Y have better steering accuracy and feel vs those BMW equivalents. Just 15 years ago, this was the hallmark of BMW (i.e., ‘sportiness’ is a luxury). Now that has evolved.

Also unlike ICE legacy automakers, Tesla does not have to ‘bridge’ its EV products. Throttle mapping, brake management etc all are programmed to behave like a ICE product across the board as most of the legacy manufacturers are sharing the same
supplier parts in its EVs.

So yes, some might not like the Tesla EV presentation, as some might not like the BMW EV presentation. The extreme sides of the argument (one is resoundingly better than the other) isn’t really rooted in consumer behavior, but a vocal minority on social media.

Sales and and conquest data is far more enlightening.

 

[E90alex]

You are correct, and some people may not want to sit in a dealership for service or have to search for footage after an accident.

Some might (especially the smartphone generation) appreciate seamless phone key and app integration/features.

Luxury, comfort, and features can have many meanings, and if you are open to many interpretations of such, you can see all benefits to all approaches.

Interestingly enough, the Model 3 and Y have better steering accuracy and feel vs those BMW equivalents. Just 15 years ago, this was the hallmark of BMW (i.e., ‘sportiness’ is a luxury). Now that has evolved.

Also unlike ICE legacy automakers, Tesla does not have to ‘bridge’ its EV products. Throttle mapping, brake management etc all are programmed to behave like a ICE product across the board as most of the legacy manufacturers are sharing the same
supplier parts in its EVs.

So yes, some might not like the Tesla EV presentation, as some might not like the BMW EV presentation. The extreme sides of the argument (one is resoundingly better than the other) isn’t really rooted in consumer behavior, but a vocal minority on social media.

Sales and and conquest data is far more enlightening.

I always get a loaner from my BMW dealers, but dealership experience will vary. Experience varies even with Tesla.

Many other brands offer phone key and app integration now. It’s nothing unique or special to Tesla. Other manufacturers EV apps even offer more flexibility and granular control in terms of charge and precondition scheduling compared to just “Weekdays” or “All Week” that Tesla offers. I personally prefer a regular key fob over a Bluetooth phone key because traditional keyless systems can actually detect whether the key fob is in the car. In my Tesla I can set my phone on my shoe rack in front of the car and still start the car and drive off. That’s not secure.

The BMW i4 M50 I drove as part of BMW’s ultimate driving experience offered better steering feel and feedback vs my Model 3. Much more confidence inspiring steering and suspension.

Throttle and brake mapping have not been an issue in any other EVs I’ve driven or seen reviews of so don’t know what you’re talking about there. Most everyone else uses blended braking which is superior to Teslas brake approach where all brake pedal application will use friction brakes instead of increasing regen.

 

[zoomer0056]

traditional keyless systems

We are really moving forward for sure with keyless systems becoming traditional entrys. Tech always evolving.