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BMW I3 and Chevy Bolt versus the M3

Rottenapplr

Member
Apr 6, 2019
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LOS ANGELES
Let me rephrase. There are hackers for sure; I’m surprised it’s not wide spread. People haven’t started jail breaking their model 3 like they do to iPhones and Nintendo switches. Maybe in a few years when used prices come down it will be more common.
 

SammichLover

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Dec 8, 2018
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Why would I do that? Red Deer, Alberta has two CCS charging sites.
Because even with L3 Bolt is painfully slow. "Red Deer" is a placeholder for whatever cornchute places you're stopping in for long periods because you have to, not because it's actually where you want to stop.
Not really. The Model 3’s strongest regen setting is weaker than the Bolt’s L regen driving mode...
Nope. I don't see it at the moment but someone here actually got in both a Bolt on L and an LR D on Normal, same road, one after the other, and tested regen-only braking, from 50mph to 5mph. They did a number of runs and the results were within a few feet, which is basically within the margin of error of the testing (I don't even remember which was shorter).

The safety thing with the Bolt and holding the brake pedal at a light isn't about "rolling", it is to do with avoiding getting punted into cross-traffic's way when struck.
 
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SammichLover

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Dec 8, 2018
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Let me rephrase. There are hackers for sure; I’m surprised it’s not wide spread. People haven’t started jail breaking their model 3 like they do to iPhones and Nintendo switches. Maybe in a few years when used prices come down it will be more common.
Part of it has to do with the Model 3's computer systems having extremely hardened security. If you go over to the Model S forum you'll find a number of threads where they've hacked in and done things like flip the flag to turn on EAP's stopping at the stop-light, dumps of EAP's live, raw model of the world around it, alter the vehicle avatar on the console screen, etc. You don't see that here because the older generations of the Model S's computer are a lot easier to get into.

The other part probably has to do with the car being roughly 2 orders of magnitude more expensive. An "oopsie I bricked it" while screwing around with the firmware is a lot higher stakes. As is driving the vehicle down a public road compared to operating a cell phone. Even in a few years a used one will still be 20x or more expensive than a new cell phone, and the "driving vs calling" stakes aren't really going to change.

That said there is some "hacking" type of stuff going on, and expect it to be semi-common before too long (at least among people pushing the racing aspects of the vehicle). What Mountain Pass Performance is doing with overriding the T/C S/C parameters is pretty neat and I'm not sure how you don't call that a "hack" even if they aren't actually re-programming inside the system itself (AFAIK). They seem to still be fine-tuning the product, I haven't seen it open for general sale yet. So far it was just a lucky few that pre-ordered and got to try out the first test iteration. I'd have ordered on the spot in the window where the pre-order was up on their site but they only have the RWD version so far.
 
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afadeev

Member
Feb 28, 2019
692
624
NYC
It is a solid comment based on a good chuck of experience, via ownership, of both.

CarPlay is a hack that lets the manufacturer shortcut on the UX, with the trade-off that the infotainment sub-system is fundamentally disjointed from the car's own UX. It is a good deal better than most automobile UX out there, but that's faint praise since most automobile UX is brutally bad.

Doesn't sound like you either get what CarPlay/AndroidAuto are, or have any experience with either.

CP and AA are cell-phone centric infotainment UI's, and both manage car's screen as a monitor.
Neither needs to take over the entire screen, but that has been the default behavior with the smaller screens. Both like to required OEMs to implement a "push to talk" button on the steering wheel to provide an ability to send verbal commands with minimum distraction to the driver. All good things.

If you think your Apple or Android's UI's are somehow inferior to Tesla's experience, you are largely on your own.
Those two companies make a living building UIs that drive people's lives. Their UIs do way more than what a Tesla nav screen will ever want to do. Because it's just a car.

Either way, I own and interact with my phones significantly longer throughout the day than I drive my cars (note plural, not just Tesla). Therefore, all my contacts, music, and communications are, and likely to remain, phone centric. That is practical, intuitive, and useful.

Driving a vehicle occupies a relatively short window of my day, so making sure that it integrates with my primary communication device is only practical, and would be very useful.

Tesla is not willing to make that effort.
I, and many others, find that rather regrettable.


Rottenapplr said:
I’m surprised there hasn’t been any hacks to the model 3. Like pow people hacking the standard model to get higher trim features.
They did, don't you remember that hackathon just recently where Tesla gave a Model 3 to the winner. The car is unhackable, at least from remote.

Everything is hackable if you have physical access to the hardware.
Which is certainly the case with a car.

You can google for how-to's on disabling AP-hand-on-the-wheel nagging, installing Linux on nav screen's computer, enabling publicly hidden features (red light notification, YouTube video playback, etc).


a
 

Dan123

Member
Jun 19, 2018
451
297
Miami
It is a solid comment based on a good chuck of experience, via ownership, of both.

CarPlay is a hack that lets the manufacturer shortcut on the UX, with the trade-off that the infotainment sub-system is fundamentally disjointed from the car's own UX. It is a good deal better than most automobile UX out there, but that's faint praise since most automobile UX is brutally bad.

All I know is that Bolt allowed me to listen to text messages and respond via voice. Tesla doesn't.
 
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SammichLover

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Doesn't sound like you either get what CarPlay/AndroidAuto are, or have any experience with either.
LOL, you need to clean the wax out your ears then.

It is a dead on accurate assessment of it. It is shortcut for the automobile makers to drop-in an infotainment sub-system to their vehicle without putting in the effort to make it a seamless part of the car's overall UX. The problem being that it hijacks the screen/controls, and inevitably don't actually mesh with the rest of the car's UX. Even if the manufacturer did bother to do so when they first designed the vehicle that wouldn't last as the byproduct of one of the positives of CP/AA, OTA updates, means it is a moving target. Even in the future if non-Tesla cars start getting shipped its designs supporting OTA updates, they couldn't realistically hit that moving target with their own updates because there's no version guarantee with CP/AA and also they are semi-open on 3rd party apps which do all sorts of stuff. Plus the hijacking of the whole screen makes it huge uphill battle.

Unfortunately the result also is it is doomed to forever be a fugly hack with a fundamentally flawed overall UX. Arguably "good enough", and certainly better than a high percentage of automobile UX, but still no real way to make that final step to a integrated, seamless experience such as Tesla's.
 

SammichLover

Banned
Dec 8, 2018
2,618
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All I know is that Bolt allowed me to listen to text messages and respond via voice. Tesla doesn't.
Given that the overall Tesla UX is already vastly superior, and Tesla's very active development with OTA features shipping, hanging their hat on that one feature isn't a very good place for Chevy to be. Nor a particularly good place for a car owner to be.
 

ammulder

'98 GS400 -> P3D+
Apr 11, 2019
942
3,041
Philly area
I do think it depends how you use it. How can CarPlay own your in-vehicle experience if it doesn’t know about the radio? Seriously, is that such an unusual part of a car? Navigating back and forth between CarPlay and manufacturer’s radio screens sucks.

But my wife doesn’t use the radio and so she can stay in the CarPlay UI forever and loves it.
 

SammichLover

Banned
Dec 8, 2018
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I do think it depends how you use it. How can CarPlay own your in-vehicle experience if it doesn’t know about the radio? Seriously, is that such an unusual part of a car? Navigating back and forth between CarPlay and manufacturer’s radio screens sucks.

But my wife doesn’t use the radio and so she can stay in the CarPlay UI forever and loves it.
She doesn't use any of the vehicle screen function at all outside of CP?

Why not? <edit> Note that this would basically be impossible in the Tesla, calls for AA/CP on the Tesla are approaching the pinnacle of madness....or looking for an excuse to complain.

For me, I've found that even if I was so inclined to "stay in CP" it was painful because it kept hanging on apps. And OMG the map. o_O Apple's and Google's.
 

Niroc

Member
Apr 28, 2019
110
68
Portland Oregon
The Bolt is the perfect example why Tesla has no worries against other U.S. car manufacturers. The Bolt is something that could have been a real contender against the Model 3. But making it front wheel drive, unpleasant inside and outside visuals , and cheap looking materials is a typical outcome for GM cars.

GM really needed to hire an outside designer. Lexus did this when they created the ls430 convertible in mid 2000. The car is a classic today and highly sought after.


Tesla needs to watch out for the German car companies. I think that is the real threat.
 
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Rottenapplr

Member
Apr 6, 2019
992
478
LOS ANGELES
The Bolt is the perfect example why Tesla has no worries against other U.S. car manufacturers. The Bolt is something that could have been a real contender against the Model 3. But making it front wheel drive, unpleasant inside and outside visuals , and cheap looking materials is a typical outcome for GM cars.

GM really needed to hire an outside designer. Lexus did this when they created the ls430 convertible in mid 2000. The car is a classic today and highly sought after.


Tesla needs to watch out for the German car companies. I think that is the real threat.
I really don’t think GM wants the bolt to compete with the model 3. There was no advertisements. They hid the car in the dealership. They never pushed the car sales. And they designed the car to look like a 16k Chevy Spark.
 
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