BMW i3

[Tim]

I really shouldn't feed the troll, but your statement regarding range is categorically not true. It is trivial to make a short-range bev, but much much more difficult to make a long range one. In fact most automotive experts thought the model S range was impossible prior to Tesla actually building it. Pray tell where you'd put the 4 times larger amount of batteries within the I3 to get the Model S range. Keep in mind that weight isn't your only problem. Volumetric density is huge for traction applications and the SM Limotive cells are much worse in both respects than the Panasonic 18650s Tesla uses. Even with an identical amount of KWh somehow squished into the I3, you've got a much worse CDA and hence shorter range. Therefore add more batteries. Of course the weight is killing you now too. Need to increase the size of your inverter, motor, brakes and strengthen your frame which adds even more weight and reduces range even more. Good luck.

To my knowledge there is no other auto company which has even produced a test mule with the range of a roadster let alone an S85. Its not a matter of cost.

The i3 has the range that most people need. Really, it doesn't take much to go to Tesla's range... just piling up more battery power with the corresponding $$$. But BMW has done their market assessment (for Europe) and realized 100km is enough for most.

 

[igotzzoom]

Chevy Spark? 400ft-lbs of torque. Autoblog seemed to like it...

I'd probably get the Spark EV or Fiat 500e before I'd get the i3. No thanks. I'll wait for the Gen-III. I'm 100% confident it will blow the i3 out of the water in terms of style and performance.

 

[gameon]

You have to consider that i3 has 2-3 years of head start, so improved battery tech will benefit everybody (that's the general understanding)

IMHO you can't compare i3 with any of existing tesla model. Nobody can compare till gen3 come out (2-3 years of wait time for comparison )

 

[CyberDutchie]

Studio photos leaked:

Scoop: de productieversie van de BMW i3 - Autoblog.nl

Looks nicer than expected

Matter of taste, the earlier autoblog.nl article seems to disagree:

BMW i3, wat be je lelijk (translation: i3, you are butt ugly)

 

[jomo25]

I thought the drive characteristics wouldnt change when its using the generator since the engine never sends power to the wheels. It is only to charge the battery. I could be mistaken. but that's what i thought.

 

[GSP]

I agree the i3 does look nicer than expected. I also agree it still is butt ugly, and I would prefer a 500e, or a Spark EV. The Model S is worth every extra penny and then some.

Driving characteristics will be worse with the range extender whenever the average power required by the car is above what the generator can supply. It should be fine on 30-40 mph city streets, but it will be a dog on the highway. Worst case is climbing the Rockies. You might be passed by bicyclists.

GSP

 

[brianman]

I really shouldn't feed the troll, but your statement regarding range is categorically not true.

We (including myself here) need to be a bit more patient before throwing the "troll" (and other) flag(s) at people.

 

[gregincal]

I thought the drive characteristics wouldnt change when its using the generator since the engine never sends power to the wheels. It is only to charge the battery. I could be mistaken. but that's what i thought.

The only thing is that the generator only generates 25kW, but the motor is capable of delivering 130kW. So if the battery is completely empty and the motor is relying solely on the generator then performance would be extremely limited. Presumably the generator kicks in when there is still battery left and as long as the average usage is less than the generated power the battery can still provide for bursts of power. The exact algorithm and how it all works together remains to be seen.

 

[fastcars]

The only thing is that the generator only generates 25kW, but the motor is capable of delivering 130kW. So if the battery is completely empty and the motor is relying solely on the generator then performance would be extremely limited. Presumably the generator kicks in when there is still battery left and as long as the average usage is less than the generated power the battery can still provide for bursts of power. The exact algorithm and how it all works together remains to be seen.

you nail down pretty well and BMW engineers are smart enough :wink: to figure out when to kick in generator, so motor provide constant 130kw for extra 90 to 100 miles (whatever that number is).

if that happens you are getting same EV experience without hybrid non-sense. I want to know the maintenance side of the generator but it is early to know everything...

 

[Yggdrasill]

I think the i3 could be a good competitor to the Volt. It seem like it will be around $46k with REX before incentives. The Volt is $40k before incentives.

- The Volt has 83 km range on the NEDC, the i3 has 200 km(?).
- The Volt has 149 electric hp, the i3 has 170 hp.
- The Volt weighs 1715 kg, the i3 weighs 1250 kg.
- They both have four seats and similar storage.

The performance and quality is likely to be better than the Volt, so the $6000 premium shouldn't be impossible to get people to cough up. The BMW is too expensive and small to be a very relevant competitor to the Leaf, though it should be able to carve out a niche for itself in the market, without affecting other pure EV sales very much.

 

[yobigd20]

FEATURE REQUEST:

Another interesting detail has to do with regeneration while slowing. Tesla now offers the option to switch off the Model S's heavy level of regen, allowing it to simply glide (or "sail" as the Germans say) as an alternative. Here, the i3 blends both ends of the spectrum, with heavy regen at low speeds that smoothly morphs to sailing at higher ones.

I would *LOVE* to have this feature in the Model S. I am always switching back and forth which takes my eyes off the road!! My daily commute is 13 miles "city-ish" (probably about 12-15 lights or so) then about 80 miles highway then another 5 city (NYC) and then vise versa on the way home. I am always flipping back and forth between low and standard regen. If the Model S used high regen at slow speeds (<50mph) and low regen at higher speeds (>50mph) I probably would never have to take my eyes off the road to flip it back and forth.

I really hope Tesla adds this as a 'regen' mode! I would love this and it would make it safer as well as probably help on range a bit as well as extend the life of the brake pads (sometimes I forget to put back on standard regen when getting off the highway and then I have to use the brakes!!) lol

- - - Updated - - -

oh I also particularly like how motor trend called BMW's first attempt at this car a 'mulligan'

 

[Mr X]

FEATURE REQUEST:



I would *LOVE* to have this feature in the Model S. I am always switching back and forth which takes my eyes off the road!! My daily commute is 13 miles "city-ish" (probably about 12-15 lights or so) then about 80 miles highway then another 5 city (NYC) and then vise versa on the way home. I am always flipping back and forth between low and standard regen. If the Model S used high regen at slow speeds (<50mph) and low regen at higher speeds (>50mph) I probably would never have to take my eyes off the road to flip it back and forth.

I really hope Tesla adds this as a 'regen' mode! I would love this and it would make it safer as well as probably help on range a bit as well as extend the life of the brake pads (sometimes I forget to put back on standard regen when getting off the highway and then I have to use the brakes!!) lol

- - - Updated - - -

oh I also particularly like how motor trend called BMW's first attempt at this car a 'mulligan'

the next tesla's should definitely have regen paddles

 

[fastcars]

You can't compare i3 with any of the hybrid out there that includes volt

 

[TonyWilliams]

You can't compare i3 with any of the hybrid out there that includes volt

Oh, why exactly can't we compare an electric powered car with a gasoline motor with another like configured car?

 

[gameon]

Oh, why exactly can't we compare an electric powered car with a gasoline motor with another like configured car?

i3 use generator ONLY to supply power to battery. i3 has ICE engine which need maintenance like normal ICE cars but interval is longer (depends on your driving style etc)

i3 has more range 90 to 125 compare to most of EV (does not include any tesla). I think generator i.e. range extender won't need regular maintenance like ICE but don't have any details to back up.:wink:

 

[gene]

Am I the only one who looks at the i3 pictures and sees the Pontiac Aztek?

 

[Yggdrasill]

i3 use generator ONLY to supply power to battery. i3 has ICE engine which need maintenance like normal ICE cars but interval is longer (depends on your driving style etc)

i3 has more range 90 to 125 compare to most of EV (does not include any tesla). I think generator i.e. range extender won't need regular maintenance like ICE but don't have any details to back up.:wink:

As I said before, I would say the primary competitor for the i3 is the Volt. This is the car the the i3 is most similar to, if equipped with REX. Without REX there are no very relevant competitors.

Two things:
- The actual range of the i3 isn't known yet, in some conditions the range will probably we worse than a Leaf. The i3 almost certainly has better range in the city due to the lower weight, the Leaf might very well have better range on the highway. Use of A/C and heating will affect the i3 more than the new Leaf, due to the smaller battery.
- The range extender is an ICE. Here is the basic maintenance schedule for the motorcycle with the same engine (copy/paste from BMW forum):

BMW C 650 GT & Sport

1,000km (Running-in service) (600 mile)
- engine oil + filter + set strainer

10,000km (Engine oil service) (6000 mile)
-engine oil + filter

20,000km (Minor service) (12000 mile)
-engine oil + filter, CVT belt + roller bearings, air filter and etc.

30,000km (Engine oil service) (18000 mile)
-engine oil + filter

40,000km (Major service) (24000 mile)
-valve adjustment, engine oil + filter, gearbox oil, rear axle oil, air filter, spark plug, CVT belt + roller bearings, chain + sprockets, gaskets + oil seals + O-rings and etc.

 

[PhilBa]

I not a huge fan (just a small fan) of one foot driving but it isn't hard at all to get to the zero-regen point. OK, maybe I'm pushing or pulling a few watts on either side of zero but it's close enough to count. I'd say it takes about a day to get the feeling for it and maybe all of a week to perfect it. So, if it costs me money, me no likee... And, I really prefer the simplicity of one-foot driving in this case over yet another gizmo to deal with.

FEATURE REQUEST:



I would *LOVE* to have this feature in the Model S. I am always switching back and forth which takes my eyes off the road!! My daily commute is 13 miles "city-ish" (probably about 12-15 lights or so) then about 80 miles highway then another 5 city (NYC) and then vise versa on the way home. I am always flipping back and forth between low and standard regen. If the Model S used high regen at slow speeds (<50mph) and low regen at higher speeds (>50mph) I probably would never have to take my eyes off the road to flip it back and forth.

I really hope Tesla adds this as a 'regen' mode! I would love this and it would make it safer as well as probably help on range a bit as well as extend the life of the brake pads (sometimes I forget to put back on standard regen when getting off the highway and then I have to use the brakes!!) lol

- - - Updated - - -

oh I also particularly like how motor trend called BMW's first attempt at this car a 'mulligan'

 

[tommolog]

BMW Press temporally released and then pulled a video of the production i3 driving this morning. Not sure if they made a mistake or what but it's not supposed to be officially shown till Monday. I put it up on my blog if anyone is interested.
The Electric BMW i3: BMW i3 Teaser Video Released

 

[TonyWilliams]

i3 use generator ONLY to supply power to battery. i3 has ICE engine which need maintenance like normal ICE cars but interval is longer (depends on your driving style etc)

i3 has more range 90 to 125 compare to most of EV (does not include any tesla). I think generator i.e. range extender won't need regular maintenance like ICE but don't have any details to back up.:wink:

So, a comparison. Yes, lightweight motorcycle engines require a lot of maintenance, and they were never designed for 100's of thousands of miles, particularly while being run at a continuous load that far exceeds what it would experience in an actual motorcycle.

This car will not likely have a range driving down the freeway at 65mph that is greater than a LEAF.

LEAF = 24kWh / .28-.29 Cd = 84 miles at 65mph on level, no wind, dry hard surfaced road.
BMW = 22kWh / .28 Cd = likely less than 84 miles

The significant (and impressive) weight advantage of the BMW over a LEAF won't likely help much in the above example. It will help in going up hills and stop-and-go driving.

I'm glad we compared the car that couldn't be compared ;-)