BMW i3

[majorlance]

I just received an invite from BMW to test drive the i3 for the weekend (maybe everyone on their list did?). My gut reaction to their email positioning was that they believe many (if not most) will dismiss an electric vehicle and they have to create awareness to sell more. Hence the offer of a free weekend test drive.

I really don't think the market for the i3 (and admittedly I haven't read all 106 pages of this thread... just the recent ones) is the same as the Tesla. Can't be given the hugely different specs. They look different, perform differently...

But more ev's mean broader acceptance and options for all of us that drive an electric vehicle. Specifically, more gas (er, charging) stations and an acceleration in advances of the battery technology.

My two cents...

 

[Mookuh]

We've gotten in a new BWM i3 (without REX) at work this month, and we're in the process of conducting various measurements and tests, while also trying to decipher the CAN-matrix of the beast.

As part of this, the plan is to put it onto a roller dynamometer test stand in order to be able to do a controlled discharge with about 1C (= drive the thing empty in 1 hour).
Does anyone know how to disable the ESC on the i3? Because that's gonna be quite tricky to put on the test bench otherwise (the stand in question only works on one set of wheels). Any help on this would be much appreciated!

It might very well be me who ends up "driving" the thing, so is there anything people are curious about that I should keep an eye on, or maybe some patterns I should try and drive that'd be especially interesting to people?
Keep in mind, however, that sudden, drastic acceleration and breaking are quite dangerous on the dyno and won't be able to be conducted. (Breaking hard on the dyno will apperntly cause the car to jump out and be catapulted into the nearby fan/wall. Wouldn't wanna risk it)

 

[WarpedOne]

ecarfan:
>> But beauty is generally a subjective judgement...
That is a loser's excuse...

I have been warned above can be understood as naming ecarfan a loser. For that I apologize as it was not my intention to do so.

Still I hold the position that one hides behind the subjectivity of beauty when beauty is generally questioned.
When "some beauty" is widely acknowledged, there is little pressure to acknowledge its subjectivity.

Some other cars of such beauty:

All above found their buyers. Same with i3 that fits among them just fine.

 

[Vitaman]

It is polarizing...I'll give you that.
BMW is not immune to this sort of thing.
In 2008 they introduced the X6 and to this day the Press and BMW fans and foes are divided on its visual appeal.

 

[majorlance]

Still I hold the position that one hides behind the subjectivity of beauty when beauty is generally questioned.
When "some beauty" is widely acknowledged, there is little pressure to acknowledge its subjectivity.

.

I wish I had a picture of my old 1976 AMC Gremlin... ah, such beauty cannot even be described! Inline 6, three on the floor, rubber for carpet and my hand-mounted stereo hanging from the dash with coat hanger wire. Now that was a car...

 

[JohnQ]

It is polarizing...I'll give you that.
BMW is not immune to this sort of thing.
In 2008 they introduced the X6 and to this day the Press and BMW fans and foes are divided on its visual appeal.

From a marketing perspective, polarization is good. It encourages community, requires loyalty and automatically excludes certain populations. You just want to make sure you're including and excluding the right audiences.

The i3 is not a "premium" car in any traditional sense. The materials in the cabin, the upright stance and other aspects simply appeal to a different group of buyers. There are plenty of folks who won't buy a BMW simply because it's a BMW. This might convert some buyers. The only question is whether it will appeal to a broad enough segment to be sell the allocated run of vehicles (there are constraints in materials and batteries) and be profitable. I have doubts about the long term viability of this style; it will probably look dated in 5 years.

Is it ugly? To me, yes. Is if functional when you're sitting inside the car? Also, yes.

 

[Electroman]

You are right that i3 is not a premium car in the traditional sense, only priced as one ! -

 

[EarlyAdopter]

The i3 is styled exactly as it needs to be: to ensure it doesn't cannibalize sales of internal combustion engine BMWs.

 

[ecarfan]

The i3 is styled exactly as it needs to be: to ensure it doesn't cannibalize sales of internal combustion engine BMWs.

You nailed it. Why would BMW design a beautiful EV that could steal sales from their ICE vehicles? They won't do it.

And the i8 isn't a serious EV with that laughably short electric range so BMW styled it more progressively.

 

[WarpedOne]

You nailed it. Why would BMW design a beautiful EV that could steal sales from their ICE vehicles? They won't do it.

Exactly, but that is not an excuse, it is yet another reason to criticize them and the car.
They purposely built it as a bad EV, when they could do WORLDS better.
They are not helping the EV cause but hurting it.

ActiveE already was worlds better than i3. It also had higher HW range than i3 has. It actually was a normal car. With an upgraded EV drivetrain I would already be mine. And should cost less than i3 (at least to BMW).

 

[yobigd20]

Bmw i3 just got a few updates on the 2015 model. Standard heated seats and CCS charging, dc fast charging. Oh and $1000 price hike. So I guess those were free features after all haha

BMW’s 2015 i3 Loaded Up With More Features; Tesla Motors Inc, Beware

 

[JohnQ]

The i3 is styled exactly as it needs to be: to ensure it doesn't cannibalize sales of internal combustion engine BMWs.

Of course this is true. BMW wants to grow sales of its vehicles in total. If I want to attract a new group of buyers to a new sub-brand would I simply replicate everything that I've done with my existing brand? Of course not. BMW is not on a mission to electrify the world. It is on a mission to sell the most vehicles possible within a specific brand paradigm. The creation of the "i" brand allows them to sell EVs (of many flavors) and increase vehicle sales overall.

 

[woof]

ActiveE already was worlds better than i3. It also had higher HW range than i3 has. It actually was a normal car.

While the ActiveE was a really nice EV, it was not a "normal car". It was 1000 pounds heavier than a one series, with a severely compromised trunk and rear floor space. Yes it had a tad higher rated range but in the real world the i3 is about the same (less mass and heat pump almost make up for the smaller battery). I find the i3 handles much better, and is much more comfortable, and I prefer the regen to a stop and hold and ACC as well. I do prefer the looks of the ActiveE over the i3. Don't get me wrong...if I could've keep the ActiveE I would've, but I don't find it "worlds better" than the i3 is.

Of course this is true. BMW wants to grow sales of its vehicles in total. If I want to attract a new group of buyers to a new sub-brand would I simply replicate everything that I've done with my existing brand? Of course not. BMW is not on a mission to electrify the world. It is on a mission to sell the most vehicles possible within a specific brand paradigm. The creation of the "i" brand allows them to sell EVs (of many flavors) and increase vehicle sales overall.

Yep, this seems to be what the i series is all about...trying to attract a new cadre of buyers--more eco conscious and less likely to have ever owned a car or even want to own a car. Thus using the i3's in car sharing programs. It's more Euro-Centric than US, they just happen to be selling them here as well.

 

[gregincal]

While the ActiveE was a really nice EV, it was not a "normal car". It was 1000 pounds heavier than a one series, with a severely compromised trunk and rear floor space. Yes it had a tad higher rated range but in the real world the i3 is about the same (less mass and heat pump almost make up for the smaller battery). I find the i3 handles much better, and is much more comfortable, and I prefer the regen to a stop and hold and ACC as well. I do prefer the looks of the ActiveE over the i3. Don't get me wrong...if I could've keep the ActiveE I would've, but I don't find it "worlds better" than the i3 is.


Yep, this seems to be what the i series is all about...trying to attract a new cadre of buyers--more eco conscious and less likely to have ever owned a car or even want to own a car. Thus using the i3's in car sharing programs. It's more Euro-Centric than US, they just happen to be selling them here as well.

But unless they get their act together they are going to gain a new market while Tesla steals their existing one. I'm far from the only former BMW owner who now has a Tesla, and unless they come up with their own convincing electric 3 series alternative that trend is only going to increase with the release of the Model 3. The Model S showed that electric sport sedans are better than ICEs at many of the things that BMW customers value.

 

[WarpedOne]

It was 1000 pounds heavier than a one series, with a severely compromised trunk and rear floor space

That's why I'm refering to its successor that never came, a 2nd generation ActiveE with another take on packaging.

Yes it had a tad higher rated range

Not rated, it had actual higer highway range due to better aerodynamics. i3's aero just sucks. Same with looks.

But unless they get their act together they are going to gain a new market while Tesla steals their existing one.

Famous old: if you don't canibalize yourself, others will.
So far BMW is in safe when looking total numbers, due to production capabilites.
When it comes to their topoftheline range, not so much.
100k MS per year will strongly eat into their top of the line products, reducing theirs total margins.

 

[Jaff]

When I think of the i3's looks, "dashing" is not a word I would use...:biggrin:

 

[GSP]

Check out what BMW execs think the i3 REX is (and please keep the disscussion in the linked thread):

Pure BEV Dogma - Page 104

GSP

 

[VolkerP]

Yep, this seems to be what the i series is all about...trying to attract a new cadre of buyers--more eco conscious and less likely to have ever owned a car or even want to own a car. Thus using the i3's in car sharing programs. It's more Euro-Centric than US, they just happen to be selling them here as well.

If this was the strategy, it seems to work out. BMW sales rep said that 80% of i3 customers are new to the BMW brand. So no cannibalizing of existing ICE sales.

But I think any brand has one or maybe two shots aiming at different directions than before. With the rumored i5, BMW must put its cards on the table and show if they are in this for real.

 

[AEdennis]

If you look at the Superbowl ad with Katie Couric and Bryant Gumbel

BMWi is pushing for the sustainability in the production of the car and understating the performance and trying to draw parallels between the Internet and the i3.

 

[ggies07]

If you look at the Superbowl ad with Katie Couric and Bryant Gumbel

BMWi is pushing for the sustainability in the production of the car and understating the performance and trying to draw parallels between the Internet and the i3.

Nice, I like it. Generic, but like you said it gets the public to understand how far we have come and where we are going.