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BMW Suffers Big Setback Against Tesla in California

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by chickensevil, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    http://www.thestreet.com/story/12221040/1/bmw-suffers-big-setback-against-tesla-in-california.html

    "NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- BMW's (Xetra:BMW) Tesla-challenger, the i3, was engineered to get special regulatory status in California to enable it to compete effectively against the Tesla(TSLA_)[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Model S. Just in time for BMW's customers to start placing their orders, this critical BMW selling point has been removed, resulting in a huge victory for Tesla as well as BMW's other competitors."[/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Basically they just lost their white sticker status for the i3. According to the article they may not even start deliveries of their vehicles to make the green sticker cut off of the first 40,000 vehicles. So this is a total win for Tesla even more because if you can't make your EV successful in California, you aren't likely to make it successful anywhere else in the US.

    This is totally paving the way forward for GEN 3 to come in with even less risk of "competition" even though the case has been made numerous times that the i3 is no serious competition, this just makes it even less so.
    [/FONT]
     
  2. MarkR

    MarkR Member

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    Hope that you'll help us understand what it's development means. I have no idea what "white sticker status" or a green sticker might denote.

    Frankly, I see the i3 as an ugly compromise with poor performance characteristics, BUT I'm pleased to see the major players become involved with plug-ins because it will help to influence the environmental paradigm shift that we need.
     
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    #3 ecarfan, Jan 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
    Read the article and it explains what white and green stickers are. Here is part of the article:

    QUOTE:"While there are many reasons for this, including technology and culture, a major incentive for buying a plug-in car in California is the right to drive in the carpool lane solo during rush hour... there are two kinds of carpool lane stickers in California. The first one is the "white sticker" for pure electric cars and natural gas cars. The second one is the "green sticker" for plug-in hybrid cars.
    The crux of the matter is that the green-sticker category is limited to the first 40,000 cars that apply. The white-sticker category is unlimited in quantity. As of November 8, 2013, 24,452 green stickers had been issued. One can reasonably assume that the 40,000 limit may be reached by the middle of 2014... BMW found a way to work with California's regulatory bureaucrats to create a new class of car that would be eligible for the coveted white sticker. This new class would have a gasoline engine, but a very limited one. Unlike a Chevrolet Volt or equivalent, this new class would have a tiny engine (650cc, 35 HP two-cylinder in BMW's case) with a tiny gasoline tank (2.4 gallon) and the gasoline engine could only be used to keep the battery from going below the 5% level, not to charge it any higher than that. Furthermore, it could not have a range longer than the battery-powered range, and under no circumstances longer than 100 miles."

    Go to page 2 of the article for more info, but here is the conclusion of the article:

    QUOTE: "In the end, if you want your BMW i3 with the range-extender in California -- and that's likely what most prospective BMW i3 customers wanted -- you're not going to get the white sticker. You're not going to get the $2,500 government rebate. And soon, when the 40,000 green stickers run out, you won't get the green sticker either.
    Long story short: Tesla is laughing all the way to the bank about this very sad news for BMW."

    I think the author exaggerates the likelihood that most i3 buyers will want the range extender option. But who knows at this point. We will have to wait and see.

    To me the important takeaway is that Tesla buyers in general don't care about range issues because they have 200 mile plus capable cars and they have the Supercharger network. BMW i3 buyers have strictly a commuter car unless they buy the range extender option which adds cost, weight, and complexity and prevents them from getting the white HOV lane sticker in California.
     
  4. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    Strange that the journalist believes the i3 is a Model S competitor. ELR, Volt and Leaf competitor, yes, but hard to see the similarities with the Model S.

    BTW, has this been confirmed by other sources?
     
  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    It's likely the green stickers will expire before the white stickers do. Having a white sticker means you will likely be driving in the HOV lane long after those green sticker cars no longer are allowed. (Happened to Prius owners who had yellow stickers - those were great incentives to buy, but expired a couple summers ago.)
     
  6. eMileage

    eMileage Member

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    It's possible the article could be based on the current carpool lane single occupant eligibility list for 2014 model year vehicles: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm#vehicles

    There has apparently been no communication thus far with California ARB to confirm reasoning for the exclusion of the i3 Rex. So, it may still be possible that they will update the list to include it. Or it may simply be an error or oversight.
     
  7. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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  8. callmesam

    callmesam Member

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    The white sticker is a huge incentive in a place that has 4 of the top 10 busiest highway interchanges. Carpool lane incentives might be one of the most important incentives since it rewards owners with time (the precious . . .)
     
  9. FredTMC

    FredTMC Model S VIN #4925

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    Yes, it's a pretty good selling point for folks in CA. I put my white stickers on my car. Most folks I know who get the car in CA put the stick on as soon as they can get it from the CA DMV.
     
  10. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    San Diego is probably a bit different. I rarely see a Model S with HOV stickers on it here.
     
  11. jkliu47

    jkliu47 Member

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  12. JST

    JST Active Member

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    If this really is the only sourcing for that article, that's pretty thin.
     
  13. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Not really a victory for Tesla IMO. Does this really matter to Tesla much at all?
     
  14. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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  15. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    The white/green stickers are like gold along the busy highways such as 101 and 880 up here in the Bay Area. There's easily a 30 mph difference between the HOV lane speed and that of the other lanes during commute hours along 101 in the peninsula.

    I applied the stickers using paint protection film strips so that they can be pulled off eventually without any damage:

    California DMV - Plates HOV Stickers - Page 14


    The green stickers are surely going fast. It's been two months since that 24,000-odd number from early November and I'd hazard a guess that many more Volts (including that of my son's second grade teacher!)/Plugin-Priuses (including my neighbor's!)/C-Max-Energis/Plugin-Accords/etc. would have been moved in Calif. by the end of the year. The 40,000 mark should definitely be reached by Fall 2014 at the latest.
     
  16. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    BMW altered the design of the American i3 REx for the worse in order to qualify for the white sticker.

    The American version has a smaller gas tank, wont engage until the battery is at 5% and will not regenerate the battery only maintain at 5%.

    The European version of the i3 REx the generator can be driver engaged when battery falls below 80% at higher speeds and maintain charge plus it has a larger gas tank.

    Evidently BMW thinks the White Sticker is important because they jumped through hoops to try and get it.
     
  17. Frankrb

    Frankrb Member

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    Information I received from a friend seriously considering the i3 is that the dealer told him BMW will ONLY offer the i3 with the silly range extender ice in the US.
     
  18. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    I totally agree. I, like Elon, want more EV's on the road so I view this as loss for electric mobility. I don't see the i3 as any sort of a threat to the Model S or the Model E/Gen III when it comes out. I see almost no one cross shopping between the two. I could see a few people buying or leasing an i3 while waiting for the smaller Model E since it is still 3 years away.

    Sorry, I don't see this as anything to be happy about.
     
  19. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    Seems pretty simple to me. The i3 has a gas engine (albeit a small one), so it shouldn't be in the HOV lane. Or are similarly small-engined vehicles like motorcycles also allowed in?

    If BMW wanted that white sticker so badly, they should have put a bigger battery in the i3.
     
  20. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    The thing about the i3 is they put such a small tank in it (2 gallons) that it would be quite inconvenient to burn much gas, so it going to be running on battery most of the time. I can see the argument that is should be considered in a different class than other hybrids.

    BTW, motorcycles are allowed in the carpool lanes in California.
     

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