BMW Suffers Big Setback Against Tesla in California

[Discoducky]

BMW altered the design of the American i3 REx for the worse in order to qualify for the white sticker.

The American version has a smaller gas tank, wont engage until the battery is at 5% and will not regenerate the battery only maintain at 5%.

The European version of the i3 REx the generator can be driver engaged when battery falls below 80% at higher speeds and maintain charge plus it has a larger gas tank.

Evidently BMW thinks the White Sticker is important because they jumped through hoops to try and get it.

Yikes, while I'd never consider the REx an option for WA State residents (due to having to pay sales tax) it seems like it might be dead in the water in CA as well since without the REx I'm assuming you'd definitely get the white sticker.

 

[sranger]

BMW altered the design of the American i3 REx for the worse in order to qualify for the white sticker.

The American version has a smaller gas tank, wont engage until the battery is at 5% and will not regenerate the battery only maintain at 5%.

The European version of the i3 REx the generator can be driver engaged when battery falls below 80% at higher speeds and maintain charge plus it has a larger gas tank.

Evidently BMW thinks the White Sticker is important because they jumped through hoops to try and get it.

The gas tank is the same with either version (9 liters), but not allowing the REx to engage above 5% SOC is a big issue as the REx can be over whelmed and go into a power limiting mode is certain situations...

If anything BMW should IMMEDIATELY add a larger gas tank and remove the 5% restriction as it is ONLY a liability to them now....

 

[doug]

The i3 should be a green sticker car anyhow. My guess is that California will expand the green sticker program when the time comes.

Positioning the story as "win" for Tesla is just a way to generate mouse clicks.

 

[callmesam]

The i3 should be a green sticker car anyhow. My guess is that California will expand the green sticker program when the time comes.

Positioning the story as "win" for Tesla is just a way to generate mouse clicks.

The green sticker is NOT coming back. Another year with the EV and why would CA settle for a amphibian?

But you might see an expansion or contraction of the white sticker.

 

[JPP]

White HOV sticker for me in the SF Bay Area is a BIG deal. Major time saver on many freeways and bridges. My understanding on the BMW fiasco was that, at the end of the day, to get a white sticker the car had to be 100% electric, not just '99%' electric.

 

[jerry33]

If BMW wanted that white sticker so badly, they should have put a bigger battery in the i3.

But if they did that, it would compete with their other cars. I believe this is something they are trying to avoid at all costs.

 

[chickensevil]

I consider it relevant considering if Northern VA still offered HOV access for EVs and such on 95/395/66 I would have gotten the Model S day one. (For the record the Northern VA is one of those metro areas that is also listed in the top 10, and if you base it on "time lost" we are considered number 1 in the US.) So I can only imagine the thoughts running through the people in just as bad of a commuter city like mine when buying a car. Given that most of the sales for this car is in Cali (estimated at 50%), I would say this is a pretty big deal for getting into the "mass adoption" phase.

Also, I have read many many articles about how the i3 would be the "Tesla killer" or whatever, and while I don't agree with the sentiment, as an investor anything that keeps the competition down for longer is a win in my book. I want other companies to put out a REAL competitor to Tesla. Not some "compliance car". So this makes me happy in that regard if the CARB is retracting it because it isn't 100% an EV.

 

[Tasdevil]

For me it's not Tesla v BMW, it's EV v ICE.

i know most people here are big believers in EVs/Tesla/Elon, but we are still the minority.
the more Car companies that produce successful EVs the more people will convert.
And tesla being on their 3rd model (model x) some people wonder how reliable the car will be over 10-20years.
If Companies like BMW, Mercedes and Toyota making very good EVs, the success will be shared.
it won't be tesla v someone else until EVs have about 20% of the market (whole car market)

 

[VolkerP]

The story tells that BMW designed the car to match carefully crafted CARB regulations. So why would these regulations get appealed before the i3 market launch?
IF true (big IF here), this is an example of the risk to base your business on any special govt regulation. I sense a common schadenfreude in this thread for that - don't know if I join or if I feel sorry for BMW. Alterations to the car (e.g. larger battery as suggested) would severely set back the market launch date, plus add renegotiation with customers that reordered.

So I'd like to see another source besides a report that tries to paint it as "BMW loses, Tesla wins".

 

[renim]

So I'd like to see another source besides a report that tries to paint it as "BMW loses, Tesla wins".

if the following is from BMW, then there was no change of rules after the fact.

'The i3 with Range Extender qualifies for the green sticker, which is limited in numbers and will run out in the eventual future (possibly late in 2014). This is technically to be expected since the car is equipped with an internal combustion engine which potentially emits fuel fumes, and thus makes it harder to qualify for the white sticker which typically can be obtained by full battery-electric vehicles (BEV) and Hydrogen vehicles. The white sticker is not limited in terms of numbers. There is a continued, constructive relationship between BMW and CARB executives, and there has been no reversal of position. It also bears mention that the i3 with Range Extender qualifies for the full CA incentive amount of $2,500 – so the statement in the original article that the owners will not receive CA state incentive money is also wrong.'

BMW i3 Range Extender reportedly doesn’t qualify for White Sticker in California

We can speculate what the hold-up is, I suspect its a delay due to a non-comformance similar to how the GM Volt was delayed (due to emissions) a year from gettings its HOV sticker back when it was released.

 

[AMPd]

I totally agree. I, like Elon, want more EV's on the road so I view this as loss for electric mobility. I don't see the i3 as any sort of a threat to the Model S or the Model E/Gen III when it comes out. I see almost no one cross shopping between the two. I could see a few people buying or leasing an i3 while waiting for the smaller Model E since it is still 3 years away.

Sorry, I don't see this as anything to be happy about.

+1,
i3 competing with tesla? hmm, i always saw it as a competitor to the leaf.
Model s is too different for them to compete against each other

At some point people need to stop comparing cars just because they are electric, not all ICE cars are competing with each other

 

[chickensevil]

"The i3 with Range Extender qualifies for the green sticker" - Well then, there you go.

I know the sentiment here is EV vs ICE, but I dislike when they try to stick hybrids (in any form) into this category and as such am glad that they are getting the green sticker. I guess I am also jaded by all the current auto players on the market because they had their opportunity in the 90s to go EV and they squandered it, removed it, and killed it. If they had their way, Tesla would have never happened, and they would have continued chugging along with their newly released SUV gas guzzlers (go figure that vehicle has become THE car to own...)

As far as I am concerned most all of the automakers can die off for what they did. I'm sorry if that is harsh, but I very much hate when people leverage their power to squash new opportunity. Same reason why at this point I hope all the dealerships die off. Many many many of our current industries need to be totally flipped on their head, because they abuse their wealth to lock out new ideas, and new and better opportunity.

 

[miimura]

CARB created a BEVx rule that had a stipulation that the minimum All Electric Range be 75 miles and the range extender could add no more range than the AER. In addition, the extender cannot come on until the vehicle goes into charge sustaining mode at some pre-determined low SOC. This prevents them from providing a "Mountain Mode" or "Hold Mode" or "EV Later" function. BMW met all these conditions with the i3 REx. This qualifies the car for the full $2,500 state rebate instead of $1,500 that all other PHEVs on the market get. The carpool stickers are based on different regulations. White carpool stickers require the vehicle to be rated as a Federal ILEV (Inherently Low Emission Vehicle) which gasoline PHEVs are not.

 

[jerry33]

If they had their way, Tesla would have never happened, and they would have continued chugging along with their newly released SUV gas guzzlers (go figure that vehicle has become THE car to own...)

Before 1975 people only drove trucks if they needed them. Then in 1975 the pollution control came out but only for cars. This made trucks cheaper to buy, cheaper to run (mpg took a dump), and have more performance than cars. There was a magazine cover that showed a pickup beating a corvette (I forget if it was C&D or R&T). Trucks then became cool, and SUVs have more room and style than a pickup. Now station wagons (renamed crossovers) have become popular as they are more economical than full sized trucks and have more style than minivans.