Boeing 787 Dreamliner & Battery Issues

[yobigd20]

Reports that Boeing's Dreamliners are suffering with Lithium Ion batteries that are overheating and catching fire would seem to be a problem that Elon and his team at Tesla might provide a solution for. It would make good press for Tesla as well.

Well it seems like they have just offered this. Elon tweeted "Maybe already under control, but Tesla & SpaceX are happy to help with the 787 lithium ion batteries."

 

[Kaivball]

Ferrari's catch on fire. Tesla's don't.

And Fiskers and Volts...

 

[Doug_G]

Fiskers, yes. Not Volts - except when not updated to fix the problem, subjected to extreme test conditions at NHSTA, and then improperly handled afterwards.

 

[Norbert]

Electric cars (even just Roadsters) are already on the road in the numbers in which statistics would say that for an equal number of gasoline cars, several of them would have caught fire. However, especially the pure electrics (Leaf and Tesla) had zero fires so far (AFAIK).

 

[dpeilow]

Not quite zero.

 

[Norbert]

Not quite zero.

Something where the headlights are? Doesn't look like a real fire, and certainly not where the battery is (in the back).

Should this count as 0.1 fires ?

 

[dpeilow]

Fires tend to come as integers

 

[doug]

However, especially the pure electrics (Leaf and Tesla) had zero fires so far (AFAIK).

You should probably do a little research before making blanket statements like that. There have been plenty of EV fires. Though, most of them have been from conversions. The cause of the fire is typically from cheap Chinese cells or an inadequate BMS.

Feds to study fire risks in EV batteries

 

[Norbert]

You should probably do a little research before making blanket statements like that. There have been plenty of EV fires. Though, most of them have been from conversions. The cause of the fire is typically from cheap Chinese cells or an inadequate BMS.

Feds to study fire risks in EV batteries

I do know that there have been fires in conversions. However I should have specified more clearly that I am referring to production EVs, specifically Tesla and Nissan.

Since the above doesn't look like a real fire (and certainly not like a battery fire relevant to this discussion), and there is no further information yet, my count is still at zero.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, a few months ago there has been a statement from Elon that in terms of Tesla's knowledge, there have been no fires (in spite of several serious accidents), other than a very small case with a smoking headlight (or something close to the headlight). Perhaps that's the case in the above video. Also, I think if there had been reported cases related to Leaf's, I'd know.

 

[Norbert]

There have been plenty of EV fires. Though, most of them have been from conversions.

Now I'm curious. What do you mean with "most of them"? Do you know of any except for those on the Karma and Volt, which are either not battery-related, or not from cars in the hands of a customer?

EDIT: More clearly, my question is: Do you know of any fires of EVs which are not conversions (and also not prototypes or so), except for those on the Karma and Volt (which are either not battery-related, or not from cars in the hands of a customer) ?

 

[Doug_G]

The smoking Tesla was caused by the wiring for the 12V auxiliary battery shorting out. All cars have been updated to protect the wires so that can't happen again. Plus the car was not destroyed or even significantly damaged.

 

[Norbert]

The smoking Tesla was caused by the wiring for the 12V auxiliary battery shorting out. All cars have been updated to protect the wires so that can't happen again. Plus the car was not destroyed or even significantly damaged.

Thanks for adding the info!

 

[Volker.Berlin]

Boeing 787 Batteries Same As Those In Electric Cars? Umm, NO

 

[jerry33]

Fires tend to come as integers

So if Telsa is using floats, there's no possibility of a fire.

 

[dsm363]

I loved Elon's tweet about SpaceX and Tesla offering help on batteries if they wanted it.

 

[Doug_G]

I loved Elon's tweet about SpaceX and Tesla offering help on batteries if they wanted it b

It was nicely done, saying he was sure they've got it (so as not to offend them) yet offering help (the implied message being "this wouldn't have happened if you used our technology"... Thereby implying "our cars are safe").

 

[brianman]

So if Telsa is using floats, there's no possibility of a fire.

"as integers" not "from integers"

 

[vfx]

It was nicely done, saying he was sure they've got it (so as not to offend them) yet offering help (the implied message being "this wouldn't have happened if you used our technology"... Thereby implying "our cars are safe").

"our cars and rockets...

 

[Norbert]

One case of a Chinese EV taxi (BYD, i.e. not a Tesla or Nissan. apparently not sold yet in the US or Europe, although a couple of cities agreed to buy them as taxis).

In the context of info on wikipedia, it might be one of 40 "demonstration vehicles". Someone on greencarreports posted this happened "after 100mph+ collision"

BYD e6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After a high-speed car crashed into a BYD e6 taxi in Shenzhen on May 26, 2012, the electric car caught fire after hitting a tree and all three occupants died in the accident.[14] The Chinese investigative team concluded that the cause of the fire were "electric arcs caused by the short-circuiting of high voltage lines of the high voltage distribution box ignited combustible material in the vehicle including the interior materials and part of the power batteries." The team also found that the collisions were the cause of death of the occupants, not the fire. They also noted that the battery pack did not explode, and 75% of the single cell batteries did not catch on fire, and no flaws in the safety design of the vehicle were identified.[15]

Even if counting this as a production EV, I'm pretty sure this still leaves the number of fires below the gasoline car average. The chemistry, however, is " lithium iron phosphate battery", which is not the specific chemistry used in the airplane (or Tesla's), which supposedly (according to some recent reports) would be more dangerous than the others. ANd in any case, the cause of the fire was not the battery itself, and it happened in a high speed crash which totaled the car before the fire.

EDIT: (I remembered that as an accident, not as a fire, which makes a bit of sense.)

 

[Norbert]

According to Japan: Excess voltage in Boeing 787 battery - CBS News

The cause of the Boing airplane battery fire was found:

Japan transport ministry investigator Hideyo Kosugi said the state of the battery indicated "voltage exceeding the design limit was applied" to it.

Sounds like a rather trivial design error, doesn't it? Of course, the electronics causing it might be complex, but it sounds like something avoided by careful design, especially in an EV where design attention centers on this function.