bollards on garage side wall in Riverside county, ca?

[crackers8199]

can anyone in Riverside county CA tell me if bollards are required for a powerwall on the side wall of a garage? I was of the understanding that they were only needed if the powerwall was going on the back wall, but the installer is telling me it's required anywhere inside a garage...this is an issue for us, as it would prevent us from parking both cars inside (we are the rare Californians who actually park in the garage).

if this is actually required I'm going to have to ask them to reconfigure with the batteries outside, but I'd prefer to put them inside and get the installer correct information if this isn't actually a requirement...

 

[h2ofun]

can anyone in Riverside county CA tell me if bollards are required for a powerwall on the side wall of a garage? I was of the understanding that they were only needed if the powerwall was going on the back wall, but the installer is telling me it's required anywhere inside a garage...this is an issue for us, as it would prevent us from parking both cars inside (we are the rare Californians who actually park in the garage).

if this is actually required I'm going to have to ask them to reconfigure with the batteries outside, but I'd prefer to put them inside and get the installer correct information if this isn't actually a requirement...

Mine are mounted outside

 

[crackers8199]

Mine are mounted outside

i know they *can* be mounted outside, but i'd rather have them inside. it does tend to get quite hot here in the late summer months.

i'm just not sure i believe that there is some sort of requirement to have bollards inside if on the side wall. on the back wall makes perfect sense, since they'd be protecting from a car running into them...but a car isn't going to run into them if they're on the side wall.

they're telling me they will be 3-3.5' from the wall, which basically means our 2 car garage becomes a 1 car garage with the other side completely useless. not great for potential resale value in the future, if we're trying to sell a house that has a two car garage that you can only ever park one car in...

 

[h2ofun]

i know they *can* be mounted outside, but i'd rather have them inside. it does tend to get quite hot here in the late summer months.

i'm just not sure i believe that there is some sort of requirement to have bollards inside if on the side wall. on the back wall makes perfect sense, since they'd be protecting from a car running into them...but a car isn't going to run into them if they're on the side wall.

they're telling me they will be 3-3.5' from the wall, which basically means our 2 car garage becomes a 1 car garage with the other side completely useless. not great for potential resale value in the future, if we're trying to sell a house that has a two car garage that you can only ever park one car in...

It gets real hot where I live also. Just no way would I take up my garage space for them, its tight enough already.

 

[crackers8199]

It gets real hot where I live also. Just no way would I take up my garage space for them, its tight enough already.

that's fair, but that's kind of what i was getting at...if it's just the batteries on the wall, that's not a huge issue. i can still park the car in the garage if that's the case.

if you're telling me i am required to put 6" steel bollards 3-3.5' from the wall in front of the batteries though? that's not an option because it would basically prevent us from ever parking a second car in the garage.

hence, my question: is this a code requirement in riverside county, or is the installer misinformed? my understanding was that they're only required if the batteries are on the back wall (where a car can run into them), which makes sense...but having them on the side wall there should not be a requirement as far as i know. trying to figure out who is right here, me or the installer...

 

[yblaser]

Best bet is to call you AHJ and ask.

 

[crackers8199]

Best bet is to call you AHJ and ask.

yeah, trying to figure out who exactly to call but not having any luck. that's the other reason i posted here...i know we have members in my county, was hoping someone could assist with at least pointing me in the right direction.

 

[holeydonut]

Best bet is to call you AHJ and ask.

I feel like the moment he does, his project will be red-tagged in the magical database where all the IOUs, AHJs, TLAs, and want-to-be-lawyers tee off on unsuspecting clueless homeowners with their interpretations of what is "safe". Yes, I have a tin foil hat.

When I called my AHJ to ask about bollards and set backs from skylights, the AHJ told me they only talk to licensed contractors and hung up lol. Then I went through hell.

 

[yblaser]

I feel like the moment he does, his project will be red-tagged in the magical database where all the IOUs, AHJs, TLAs, and want-to-be-lawyers tee off on unsuspecting clueless homeowners with their interpretations of what is "safe". Yes, I have a tin foil hat.

When I called my AHJ to ask about bollards and set backs from skylights, the AHJ told me they only talk to licensed contractors and hung up lol. Then I went through hell.

He's calling for a friend

 

[crackers8199]

@jjrandorin you're in rivco and have powerwalls, right? any insight?

 

[jjrandorin]

@jjrandorin you're in rivco and have powerwalls, right? any insight?

Im just now seeing this, sorry. Really busy at work today, didnt have time for surfing the net, lol. Anyway, I am in Temecula (so yeah Riverside Co), but my AHJ is city of Temecula. I also got my powerwalls installed in Jan of 2020, and the requirements have changed as I understand it, with code being updated.

With all that being said, I also join you as one of the rare californians who believe "cars live in the garage, not the driveway or in front of the house". My powerwalls are in my garage on a side wall, next to my car. I have a 3 car tandem garage, but park both our cars in it and the "tandem" garage part is where all our storage etc is.

Anyway, My powerwalls are in the garage, no additonal bollards needed when I got my install, but no idea if that is still possible here.

 

[crackers8199]

Im just now seeing this, sorry. Really busy at work today, didnt have time for surfing the net, lol. Anyway, I am in Temecula (so yeah Riverside Co), but my AHJ is city of Temecula. I also got my powerwalls installed in Jan of 2020, and the requirements have changed as I understand it, with code being updated.

With all that being said, I also join you as one of the rare californians who believe "cars live in the garage, not the driveway or in front of the house". My powerwalls are in my garage on a side wall, next to my car. I have a 3 car tandem garage, but park both our cars in it and the "tandem" garage part is where all our storage etc is.

Anyway, My powerwalls are in the garage, no additonal bollards needed when I got my install, but no idea if that is still possible here.

no worries...just figured i would tag you since i knew you lived around here.

i did contact our mayor here in elsinore, and he said he wasn't aware of any *city* requirement to have them protected by bollards...he's double checking for me or at least figuring out who to put me in touch with at the city if he can't, but if he's correct that would lend itself to being a county requirement if any, which i find hard to believe given how conservative riverside county is.

 

[yblaser]

yeah, trying to figure out who exactly to call but not having any luck. that's the other reason i posted here...i know we have members in my county, was hoping someone could assist with at least pointing me in the right direction.

I would stat with going direct to your city. There is a contact page here:

City of Lake Elsinore : Staff Directory

Maybe start with the receptionist and hopefully she can direct you to the person most likely to have the information.

Edit: see you already have talked to your mayor, so that is a more top down approach.

 

[crackers8199]

I would stat with going direct to your city. There is a contact page here:

City of Lake Elsinore : Staff Directory

Maybe start with the receptionist and hopefully she can direct you to the person most likely to have the information.

i just mentioned this in my above reply - i actually contacted our mayor (he's very responsive on social media), and he wasn't aware of any city requirement to have them protected by bollards. he was double checking or at the very least figuring out what direction to point me to make additional contacts myself.

if he's right, though, that would point to it being a county requirement...that's actually the reason i titled the thread the way i did.

 

[jjrandorin]

no worries...just figured i would tag you since i knew you lived around here.

i did contact our mayor here in elsinore, and he said he wasn't aware of any *city* requirement to have them protected by bollards...he's double checking for me or at least figuring out who to put me in touch with at the city if he can't, but if he's correct that would lend itself to being a county requirement if any, which i find hard to believe given how conservative riverside county is.

Full disclosure, I am not in any way, shape or form a code expert, or anything close to it. I also did not stay in a holiday inn express last night ( )

With that being said, I remember @Vines or @wwhitney saying that there was some adoption date for a code update. I remember one of them saying that most AHJs run a few years behind (like the "last revision" of the code, not the most current one), but that some date had passed and everyone in CA had kind of switched to like the 2017/2018 code or something.

I may be miss remembering it. Anyway, the newer version had some more stuff in it around batteries and enclosed garages, need for some sort of monitoring, etc etc.

I also remember (for example) my installer in 2020 telling me that murrieta had slightly different requirements than Temecula (for example) and while you are close, lake elsinore may also have its own AHJ (or may just use riverside counties, not sure).

Perhaps the installer can point you to the code where that says that? I wouldnt put extra bollards in my garage either, so that would have ment the powerwalls would have went outside. its even hotter where you are than where I am, during the summer, in general, so if you have to put them outside, you would want to keep them out of direct sunlight as much as possible.

Perhaps @Vines or @wwhitney or someone who has a better grasp on this "code update" I am mangling will chime in.

 

[crackers8199]

Perhaps the installer can point you to the code where that says that? I wouldnt put extra bollards in my garage either, so that would have ment the powerwalls would have went outside. its even hotter where you are than where I am, during the summer, in general, so if you have to put them outside, you would want to keep them out of direct sunlight as much as possible.

yeah, i think i'm going to e-mail him back and ask where the requirement is that any batteries inside need a bollard. at the very least, if they go outside my panel is on a north facing wall with another house about 20 feet away, so they'd be very well protected from direct sun. probably a few minutes to maybe an hour a day at most. the downside right now though is that i'll lose my install date (currently scheduled for 3/31) if they have to redesign to put them outside...who knows how far out that'll push me.

 

[jjrandorin]

FWIW here is mine, but they were installed in Jan of 2020:

 

[crackers8199]

FWIW here is mine, but they were installed in Jan of 2020:

View attachment 784209
View attachment 784210

this is exactly how I want mine installed. we even have the same concrete lip on the floor.

 

[holeydonut]

FWIW here is mine, but they were installed in Jan of 2020:

View attachment 784209
View attachment 784210

Aren't those Powerwalls mounted too close together for California??!!

No disconnects =

 

[crackers8199]

found this:

Chapter 12 Energy Systems: Energy Systems, California Fire Code 2019 | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction

up.codes

1205.7 Vehicle Impact Protection

Where stationary fuel cell power systems are subject to impact by a motor vehicle, vehicle impact protection shall be provided in accordance with Section 312.

Section 312 says:

Chapter 3 General Requirements: General Requirements, California Fire Code 2019 | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction

up.codes

Section 312 Vehicle Impact Protection

312.1 General

Vehicle impact protection required by this code shall be provided by posts that comply with Section 312.2 or by other approved physical barriers that comply with Section 312.3.

312.2 Posts


Guard posts shall comply with all of the following requirements:

1. Constructed of steel not less than 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter and concrete filled.
2. Spaced not more than 4 feet (1219 mm) between posts on center.
3. Set not less than 3 feet (914 mm) deep in a concrete footing of not less than a 15-inch (381 mm) diameter.
4. Set with the top of the posts not less than 3 feet (914 mm) above ground.
5. Located not less than 3 feet (914 mm) from the protected object.

312.3 Other Barriers

Barriers, other than posts specified in Section 312.2, that are designed to resist, deflect or visually deter vehicular impact commensurate with an anticipated impact scenario shall be permitted where approved.

my contention of course (and the way i read this) is that the side wall of a garage is not a location "subject to impact by a motor vehicle." which is why (like i said) it was my understanding that bollards are only required if the batteries are going on the back wall, not a side wall.

nobody is driving into their garage sideways.

my other question (which i'll be asking the installer i guess, depending on his answer as to where in the code it says bollards are needed on a side wall) is: can they be mounted higher on the wall as impact protection, rather than bollards?