Bolt EV EPA range = 238 miles combined!

[Tempus]

I really don't get all the hate here. Agreed that the Bolt in comparison with the Model 3 isn't very compelling - the supercharger access, autopilot, general overall look and feel, etc... i'm sure people could list tons of items...

that said - the bolt will be available first, which is relevant for a lot of people... it's also probably going to have the federal tax credit available long after Tesla can no longer offer it - which is extremely relevant for a good slice of the population. I mean, we've had tons of threads here with concern about whether individual model 3's will be early enough in line to qualify. *shrug*

overall, i think it's great for EV adoption in general, which is only good for our environment. If Chevy can sell them as fast as it can make them, that only goes to show manufacturers in general that EVs are more than viable - it promotes the acceleration of sustainable transport, which is EXACTLY what Tesla's mission is.

Tempus

 

[roblab]

I've been really concerned that 215 is not enough for my own circumstances. I have one frequent day trip that is about 260 and the only supercharger will surely be very busy as Model 3's pop up. I'm hoping 300+ will be available for a reasonable upcharge.

On a separate issue, it has occurred to me that these early Teslas may face a bleak resale future if battery ranges rapidly increase.If I leased or flipped my car purchases every three or four years, that might not matter much. But I buy and hold each car ten years or more.

Even with a 90D, a 260 mile run is on the edge, but I at least COULD do it. I would skip that supercharger just due to the time wasted, especially when I could simply slow down behind a semi or something, and up my range another 30 miles. Taking a few minutes longer to drive is often faster than charging, and definitely faster than waiting to charge.

As to "bleak future", I don't think battery range is going to "rapidly increase". Batteries will get cheaper, yes, and range will increase slowly. Of bigger concern to me are all these new buyers who figure they can make it with a 240 mile battery, and then as the years go by, range deteriorates. The warranty is for "less than" 30% drop in eight years. That brings the 240 miles down to 160, with a large portion happening in the first 3 years. My recommendation is to buy more range than you can afford, always.

 

[pinski]

Actual Model 3 sales: 0
Actual Bolt EV sales: 0

Let's compare the sales count at the end of the year. I'll give you 1 guess as to which vehicle will be in the lead.

Want to compare US sales counts at the end of 2018, cumulative for each model? That means the Bolt would get 2016, 2017 and 2018 and the Model 3 would get *maybe* 2017 and 2018. Eh?

No idea how many Tesla will be able to screw together during that time, but they'll sell them all. Not sure if we will be able to say the same for the Bolt.

 

[Jayc]

Tesla need not worry about the Bolt, its not in the same league. Realistically speaking however, we can expect it to take away a few percent of Model 3 orders but those numbers will be insignificant in the grand scheme of things. In any case this is a win-win scenario for us who are waiting for Model 3 because the chances are that Model 3 will end up being better as a result of the competition, can't wait to get into my Model 3.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Want to compare US sales counts at the end of 2018, cumulative for each model? That means the Bolt would get 2016, 2017 and 2018 and the Model 3 would get *maybe* 2017 and 2018. Eh?

No idea how many Tesla will be able to screw together during that time, but they'll sell them all. Not sure if we will be able to say the same for the Bolt.

I think the Bolt will easily sell as many as GM-LG can make. The question is how many GM-LG can and want to make during that time.

 

[cheekedave]

The Bolt could go 500 miles on a charge but it will still look the same. It looks way too cheap and mickey mouse for my taste. I am definitely not the only one who thinks this. I was totally looking to buy one but changed my mind after seeing it.

 

[S'toon]

Given that Europeans prefer smaller cars with their smaller streets, and prefer hatchbacks because of their practicality, I predict that the Opel Ampera-e like hotcakes on that side of the ocean.

 

[luca]

you spend more than 37.5k buy a bolt

and

everyone thought you buy a cheap 15k chevy sonic and can not drive long distance

This is really funny

 

[McRat]

I really don't get all the hate here. Agreed that the Bolt in comparison with the Model 3 isn't very compelling - the supercharger access, autopilot, general overall look and feel, etc... i'm sure people could list tons of items...

that said - the bolt will be available first, which is relevant for a lot of people... it's also probably going to have the federal tax credit available long after Tesla can no longer offer it - which is extremely relevant for a good slice of the population. I mean, we've had tons of threads here with concern about whether individual model 3's will be early enough in line to qualify. *shrug*

overall, i think it's great for EV adoption in general, which is only good for our environment. If Chevy can sell them as fast as it can make them, that only goes to show manufacturers in general that EVs are more than viable - it promotes the acceleration of sustainable transport, which is EXACTLY what Tesla's mission is.

Tempus

For the prices to go down, choices to go up, and features to improve, EV's must steal sales from ICE sedans.

Volume is what increases competition.

Truth? Nobody is making money selling EV's yet. And by making money, I mean making as much as they do selling ICE cars.

Toyota, BMW, Ford, and others are dragging their heels because investing in EV production does not yield the profits that investing in ICE production does.

NOBODY is going to cross shop a BMW 3xx and a Bolt. One is jewelry, one is utility.

The goal cross shop Camry and Accord and Bolt. Is America ready to drive an EV as a family car?

 

[Jeff N]

Max speed is 80mph, but there's a low overall high-speed percentage even on the supposed high speed test. It really doesn't tell you about Interstate cruising. It's better suited to the commuter grind, I expect.

Right. At EPA test speeds

This is why the GM noise over "238 mile range" is typical GM BS

Let's remember that the actual EPA test cycle results are pessimized by 30-something percent to make them consistent with the faster speeds that people actually drive at. In a LEAF, which has similar aerodynamics to the Bolt EV, the achievable EV range goes up roughly 9.3% for every 5 mph that you slow down. So, the EPA's pessimizer adjustment sort of allows you to drive 10-15 mph faster than the actual test cycle speeds while getting the window sticker range. Something like that. The highway test cycle may average just under 50 mph but the pessimistic window sticker number means you will probably get the roughly 217 miles of EPA highway range if you drive a steady 65 mph or so.

Either GM has more than 60 kWh nominal capacity or they are giving customers the ability to really strain the battery. Gotta try and match the Tesla without superchargers, right ?

You are calculating that using a number that includes charging overhead. So, if the battery really was 60 kWh and the usable fort ion was 57 kWh then it's perfectly sensible for EPA window sticker Wh per mile multiplied by the estimated miles to result in 64-66 kWh needed to recharge the battery pack.

However, we all know that these nicely rounded battery pack sizes are necessarily exactly correct. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Bolt EV's "60 kWh" pack had an actual nominal size of 62 kWh.

And you can come back when the Bolt has a SuperCharger equivalent charger network.

Across the entire country or continent or just in the areas where I actually am reasonably likely to drive on a road trip? Sure, it would be nice for folks in North Dakota to get good charger coverage right away but from a selfish point of view I don't care because I almost never drive there from my home in California. And with $80 million a year in zero emission infrastructure money being spent by VW starting next year just in California, I'm confident that I will soon have good charger coverage for the places I actually drive to.

 

[Petra]

that said - the bolt will be available first, which is relevant for a lot of people... it's also probably going to have the federal tax credit available long after Tesla can no longer offer it - which is extremely relevant for a good slice of the population. I mean, we've had tons of threads here with concern about whether individual model 3's will be early enough in line to qualify. *shrug*

I'm not so sure about this... remember, the original Volt was engineered to qualify for the federal incentive and, as such, every Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 Volt sold in the US as well as every Spark EV and ELR counts toward GM's 200k vehicle quota. As of January of this year, they had already burned through about half of their quota... so GM may lose the federal incentive before Tesla.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Given that Europeans prefer smaller cars with their smaller streets, and prefer hatchbacks because of their practicality, I predict that the Opel Ampera-e like hotcakes on that side of the ocean.

Those flabby things that used to be called hotcakes and Americans love to soak in flavored corn syrup aren't so popular there.

It might sell like crepes/pancakes.

 

[Jeff N]

Hi Jeff N. You're free to dislike my posts but I would like to know what about that post was that you disliked? If there was something factually wrong I'd like to correct it.

That was not intentional. I guess I hit the dislike button by mistake. I undid it.

 

[Tempus]

NOBODY is going to cross shop a BMW 3xx and a Bolt. One is jewelry, one is utility.

The goal cross shop Camry and Accord and Bolt. Is America ready to drive an EV as a family car?

It's a great point - i'd agree that you aren't going to get many BMW 3xx drivers to look at the bolt. A lot of them are likely going to be potential Model 3 drivers (If they are aware of Tesla and shopping electric...) though. I think releasing the bolt does a lot for general, mainstream awareness of EVs, and the fact that you can make one your primary daily driver. I think a long time back there were discussions around here about what would make this possible, and general consensus said a 200 mile range was the sweet spot for people (beyond the initial adopters) to start feeling comfortable.

So yeah - i think for someone interested in going electric (which is only going to be more people as the obvious benefits become more widely known), who is shopping in the 25K and up range - this might be something they look at, at least in the short term. And if some of them do more research and realize that the model 3 is that much better, maybe you get some upsell. That certainly happened with the Model S, where you had people who had never paid more than 30k for a car in their lives finding themselves shelling out 80K and up...

 

[Vitold]

Yes, the reviews posted have said it will be available in 50 states.

EDIT - Specifically, at the end of 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV - First Drive Review -

It will be used as Lyft fleet vehicle first, than general public in CARB states will get it. Eventually it'll be sold at select dealers in all 50 states.

There's some news, which sound believable, that it'll not be available until next year. To reinforce that opinion, today's Wired article states that Chevy engineers are still "tinkering with manufacturing dies to rounding off some of the car’s corners". Another article said that LG will start production of Bolt components at the end of September. Add shipping, assembly and validation time and you're cutting pretty close to end of the 2016.

Adding it all together Chevy may follow Tesla's footsteps and launch Bolt while not entirely ready for mass production

 

[Rashomon]

Congrats to GM, that is a great number.

The breakdown between city range and highway range will be illuminating though. I'd bet $1k right now that the base M3 will have better highway range than the Bolt with the gap widening as speed increases.

If you find a taker, I'd help you cover some of that bet. The aerodynamics of the M3 will be almost 1/3 better, and the power consumption at 75-80 mph will be much better. Even given that, the consumption and range figures for the Bolt are outstanding. GM has done its homework on efficiency, and its PMAC motor/controller package has to be one of the most efficient in the industry to get these range numbers. And quite likely the nominal battery capacity is somewhat above 60 kWh.
I'm not quite sure why the Bolt is getting all the hate I see on this thread; it's almost exactly modeled on the Honda Fit with the roofline raised to compensate for the batteries in the floor, so it's basically an extremely space efficient mini-minivan, with far more interior room and carrying space than much longer sedans. I would bet it would fit 5 six-footers more comfortably than a Tesla M3. Is it is sexy or as quick as the M3 is likely to be? No. Does it have a well-designed, readily available fast-charger network currently available to it? No, nothing as good as the Tesla Supercharger network, though that's starting to change on the West Coast. Is it the best pure EV out there other than a Tesla? Almost certainly.

 

[luca]

If you find a taker, I'd help you cover some of that bet. The aerodynamics of the M3 will be almost 1/3 better, and the power consumption at 75-80 mph will be much better. Even given that, the consumption and range figures for the Bolt are outstanding. GM has done its homework on efficiency, and its PMAC motor/controller package has to be one of the most efficient in the industry to get these range numbers. And quite likely the nominal battery capacity is somewhat above 60 kWh.
I'm not quite sure why the Bolt is getting all the hate I see on this thread; it's almost exactly modeled on the Honda Fit with the roofline raised to compensate for the batteries in the floor, so it's basically an extremely space efficient mini-minivan, with far more interior room and carrying space than much longer sedans. I would bet it would fit 5 six-footers more comfortably than a Tesla M3. Is it is sexy or as quick as the M3 is likely to be? No. Does it have a well-designed, readily available fast-charger network currently available to it? No, nothing as good as the Tesla Supercharger network, though that's starting to change on the West Coast. Is it the best pure EV out there other than a Tesla? Almost certainly.

again you need to compete with same price ICE

not model 3

 

[Jeff N]

It will be used as Lyft fleet vehicle first, than general public in CARB states will get it. Eventually it'll be sold at select dealers in all 50 states.

The Chevy Bolt will be sold nationally in the US and Canada. It will also be sold as an Opel Ampera-e in many European countries that have the steering wheel on the same side as the US starting next summer, I think.

Initial production will likely be 25-30 thousand in the first year or two but GM has said they have supplier capability to make at least 50,000 a year. Lag Chem has lots of other customers so they will likely be scaling their battery production capability quickly in the next several years.

 

[Vitold]

If you find a taker, I'd help you cover some of that bet. The aerodynamics of the M3 will be almost 1/3 better, and the power consumption at 75-80 mph will be much better. Even given that, the consumption and range figures for the Bolt are outstanding. GM has done its homework on efficiency, and its PMAC motor/controller package has to be one of the most efficient in the industry to get these range numbers. And quite likely the nominal battery capacity is somewhat above 60 kWh.
I'm not quite sure why the Bolt is getting all the hate I see on this thread; it's almost exactly modeled on the Honda Fit with the roofline raised to compensate for the batteries in the floor, so it's basically an extremely space efficient mini-minivan, with far more interior room and carrying space than much longer sedans. I would bet it would fit 5 six-footers more comfortably than a Tesla M3. Is it is sexy or as quick as the M3 is likely to be? No. Does it have a well-designed, readily available fast-charger network currently available to it? No, nothing as good as the Tesla Supercharger network, though that's starting to change on the West Coast. Is it the best pure EV out there other than a Tesla? Almost certainly.

I doubt that for the middle seat in Bolt is almost nonexistent. I guess you win some you loose some, eh

 

[ecarfan]

REALLY hoping this is a VERY ROUGH version of the final dash.

The only two working Model 3 prototypes we have seen so far (that photo appears to be the silver car) certainly only have a "rough" version of the interior, and likely the production interior will have significant differences. Plus we know that the steering wheel will be very different according to Elon.