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Bolt has FWD and Model 3 does not.

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Vitold, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    #1 Vitold, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
    It's a play on acronyms but it's true: Base Model 3 is RWD. I'm somewhat disappointed in that since driving FWD is better in snow.

    I'm getting used to even more electric nose and I love that they get rid of the instrument panel as it lowers the cost of producing left and right hand drive as well it offers better visibility. Push button handles are improvement over X since they provide haptic feedback. Headroom in the rear seats appears to be a step up from S as well. Overall the car looks very aerodynamic and it just may go further than Bolt while using smaller battery.

    I had my doubts if Tesla can pull off $35k car and it appears they will...hopefully on time. EM was only 7 minutes late this time.
     
  2. xmetal

    xmetal Member

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    Boring everyday transport is FWD. As you can see with all the other luxury and performance brands (of which Tesla wants to be a part) the focus is on the more exciting RWD or AWD. I am not surprised in the least that Tesla is aiming there.
     
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  3. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    I don't think anybody has ever broken 5 seconds in a production FWD. Where breaking it in RWD is fairly common.

    Tesla has enough engineering challenges to overcome!
     
  4. jonnyg

    jonnyg Member

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    I think this has been gone over in other places, but from what I remember part of the advantage of FWD in snow is due to ICE cars having a big heavy engine over the front wheels.
     
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  5. Wshowell

    Wshowell Member

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    Our family has a RAV 4 EV that has a Tesla drivetrain. It's FWD and the wheels cannot handle the torque when you really get on it. I wouldn't want that much power going anywhere but rear or AWD personally.
     
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  6. pinski

    pinski Going Plaid

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    Dual motor will be an option if you need better traction :cool:
     
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  7. Solarwind

    Solarwind Member

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    Bolt does not have Super Chargers. a big deal! 3 will have AWD as accessory, good planning because it is not needed everywhere and adds weight and complexity.
     
  8. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    It is. In the snow, at least, that's a big reason. The other is that "pushing" a vehicle in a straight line is more difficult than pulling it when traction is poor because it requires constant steering input to remain on course.
     
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  9. david_42

    david_42 Member

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    One big reason FWD dominates the ICE market today is it eliminates the transmission hump inside the car, that more than compensates for the additional complexity and potential handling problems with FWD. Tuning the suspension to remove all of the torque-steering problems isn't simple. Tesla has RWD the X and S, RWD base model and 4wd achieved by adding a second motor up front. The front motor can be smaller than the main motor and have less impact on steering.
     
  10. brkaus

    brkaus Member

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    Front Wheel Drive is subject to torque steer. I'd prefer RWD with better traction control offered by an electric motor.
     
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  11. manitou820

    manitou820 Member

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    I survive Colorado winter's in an i3 (RWD). Just get some good snow tires and you're good to go. I actually prefer the RWD in the snow (compared to FWD) when trying to get up my driveway because the weight is transferred over the wheels for better traction. Re-gen is a little scary at first because of the fishtail effect, but you get use to it. However I will most likely spec my Model 3 with AWD for the best possible traction.
     
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  12. rcarpen22

    rcarpen22 Member

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    Front wheel drive also inherently tends to understeer when you exceed available traction. This tends to be safer because the average driver freaks out and slams on brakes in such a situation. This is not a terrible response to understeer. Rear drive is much more sporting because you are not compromising steering by asking one axle to do everything (drive, steer, brake). However, rear wheel drive tends toward oversteer unless it is tuned out in the suspension. Freaking out and slamming on brakes is a poor response to oversteer, as it exacerbates the problem. I would very much prefer rear wheel drive to front, especially in a car that has the drivetrain in the rear. Old VW Beetles were great in the snow for this reason. I am very pleased that the M3 will be available in rear and AWD formats. A base rear drive M3 might be the lightest, most nimble, and most fun Tesla of all.
     
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  13. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    That's why Tesla does Traction Control. No wheel spin, front, rear, or both.
     
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  14. DrManhattan

    DrManhattan Member

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    I don't care what Bolt has, it WILL NOT be better than a Model 3 in the snow ever.
     
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  15. chadever

    chadever Member

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    Buy snow tires if your worried about the snow... that will do more than FWD or AWD.
     
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  16. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    We always knew it would be.

    False.
     
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  17. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Unfortunately for the OP, he or she didn't take the time to review the discussions regarding front- and rear-wheel drive before posting and before crafting the thread-head.

    As jrp3 succinctly and others a bit more expansively wrote, the use of front-wheel drive has prevailed amongst snow-country drivers over the past three dozen or so years. HOWEVER, it is only in the minds and pens of marketers, NOT in engineers, that FWD is inherently superior to RWD for traction and handling. It is a better way to compensate for the mass of an engine, and it does solve the design limitations that a driveline, and less so the transmission hump, imbue on a vehicle's interior. Tranny hump is less so because the FWD vehicle also needs that tranny.

    Tesla's single-motored Model S platforms demonstratively showed that a rear drive, combined with the vehicle's other features like weight distribution and appropriate, responsive traction control, offers superb handling in snow. To be sure, that can be enhanced with dual, front and rear motors. But I will implacably assert that a RWD Model 3 will more than hold its own against any comparably-sized ICE vehicle that has FWD.

    Anyone who wishes to dispute me, by the way, just has to bring out his front "wheel" drive snowmobile......I won't hold my breath.
     
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  18. R.S

    R.S Member

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    It is a complete myth that FWD would be better in the snow. It is a generalization and true for most cars, just because they have more mass over the front axel than at the back.Thats because in a standard ICE the engine and transmission are the heaviest parts and in the front, most of the times, its a different story with a VW Beetle for example. As soon as the wight distribution shifts to the back, rear wheel drive is better. With a 50/50 weight distribution, both are equally good at low acceleration, but if you accelerate the momentum shifts weight back to the rear wheels.
    Its just basic physics. The acceleration forwards can't be higher than the powered wheels static friction times the mass applied on that wheel divided by the vehicle mass. Once you overcome that point, the wheel starts to slip and it does not really matter if the front wheels slip, or the back wheels, it only decides if you go forwards into a tree, or backwards.
     
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  19. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    We are not talking rocket science or theoretical physics. People driving RWD cars in snow and up in a ditch faster.

    It's hard to dispute that if you've actually driven in a snow. I've had cars with RWD and FWD they both have their pluses and minuses but FWD is easier to handle in snow and is naturally tracking straight.

    As to weight distribution, for FWD (and RWD) car it's best to have close to 50/50 ratio. 60/40 which you (falsely) claim makes FWD drive better actually causes under steer and it's not desirable.
     
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  20. supersnoop

    supersnoop Tesla Roadster #334

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    FWD is "better" in the snow because the weight of the engine is on the drive wheels. That's irrelevant in the Model 3.
     

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