Bolt has FWD and Model 3 does not.

[steveho]

Have you ever seen a RWD with a 50/50 weight distribution, or a FWD with most of the weight on the rear? Because you seem to be ignoring the fact that FWD vehicles have most of their weight over the drive wheels, while conventional RWD's do not. I did a 180 degree spin in a FWD car in the snow when I tried to slow down quickly because the back end came around on me. As far as the "friction" of the front wheels, how would that be any different between a FWD and RWD?

RWD vs FWD, weight distribution is only part of the question. The rest of the question has to do with the rate that the wheels are turning. Physics says that the faster turning wheels will always want to lead. So in FWD, that is a good thing in snow, and RWD is not as good in snow. This is given other factors being equal.
BUT, and here is the big but, when trying to slow down, RWD is better than FWD. The reason for this is when you take your foot off the accelerator in FWD, the front wheels are slowed down by engine drag (or regen motor drag) which means the rear wheels are turning faster, plus the fact that weight transfer goes to the front wheels, making it easier for the rear wheels to lose grip. This is what probably happened to you when you did a 180.

In RWD when you take your foot off the accelerator, the rear wheels slow down, dragging the vehicle slower without spinning out.

So inherently RWD is safer when trying to slow down on ice or snow, but FWD is better when accelerating. I prefer having more safety while slowing down than while accelerating.

Just my observations, but of course all of my observations are in gas cars with front engines. I've driven FWD, RWD, 4WD, and AWD and live in Minnesota.

-Steve

 

[AC238]

Have you seen the videos of Tesla Model S RWD in snow? The low center of gravity and decent traction control more than compensate for the RWD. Just put some winter tires (Blizzaks/Nokians/etc) on it.

Anyway it is highly likely AWD will be offered. Why would you want torque steer?

 

[NeverFollow]

I think that you are missing the point:

When riding on snow, the type of tires is the most crucial, and especially when icy only studded tires can provide enough grip.

Also, the second you press on the brakes, having FWD, RWD, or AWD has no difference.


For the general usage:

FWD provides more regenerative braking, since all the weight goes to the front when breaking.

When the Electric engine is on the front axle, this translates in better range, which is premium for any EVs.

 

[JRP3]

When the Electric engine is on the front axle, this translates in better range, which is premium for any EVs.

Not in the real world. Unless you're doing a lot of emergency type braking at the very edge of traction, the front wheels produce no more regen than the rear wheels, and, more importantly, regen is only a small fraction of range extension anyway.

 

[miatadan]

For me RWD is what I prefer. Even in electric cars I only looked at those that were RWD such as BMW i3 as the Tesla S is out of my price range. With the price of the Model 3 , the Audi A3 e-tron or BMW 330e plugin cars are not good value

Dan

 

[coei]

Coming from an appreciation of performance cars, I never really realized that there are a decent amount of people that actually prefer FWD over RWD. I have driven the GTI, Focus ST, and Mazdaspeed 3 (all performance spec FWD cars) and while still a blast to drive, the torque steer and understeer was always there reminding you that your front wheels are doing all of the work. Compare that to say a Mustang GT or (BMW) M3, and you have a completely different and much more fun to drive animal.

I do not know much about when and how Tesla's dual motor system activates, but I would have been very disappointed if the Model 3 ended up being FWD in single drive mode. The Model 3 having a focus on performance is really the only reason that I have any interest in EV's in the first place. Every other mass market EV is simply too slow for me.

 

[Lon12]

I've been driving FWD cars in snow and ice since my RWD Datsun 610. I have to say my RWD Model S is by far the best winter vehicle I have ever driven.
I have been a passenger in crashes where the FWD engine braking caused the driver to lose control. I would not want to have regen on the front.
I love how I can test the road condition by simply lifting up on the accelerator well before I need to slow.

 

[jerry33]

I'm in SoCal and I plan on getting a AWD even though I don't need it. It's because despite the weight it's actually more efficient hence the higher mileage rating.

Note that it is more efficient only at highway speeds. It will be less efficient in stop and go traffic.

 

[jerry33]

You missed the point of the question. What is the frictional difference of the front wheels on a FWD vs RWD car?

Given 50/50 weight distribution: none. ICE RWD vehicles with a front engine have a bad traction rep because, unless fully loaded, there isn't much weight on the rear axle. In addition, a poor choice of tires for winter use will make more difference.

 

[cokata]

Can't believe some people prefer FWD

It only gives you more traction initially and only if you have a front weight bias. If the car is 50/50 as i would think the Model 3 is RWD will give you better traction since the car will squat during acceleration giving more weight to the rear tires. Also if the car is not front heavy it reduces the chance of lift off oversteer. And all the electronic systems will keep you from sliding the rear if you apply too much throttle. For an EV there is 0 advantage to using FWD.

 

[JRP3]

If the car is 50/50 as i would think the Model 3 is RWD will give you better traction since the car will squat during acceleration giving more weight to the rear tires.

Yes, there is a reason you don't see any FWD dragsters.

 

[cokata]

Yes, there is a reason you don't see any FWD dragsters.

True. The only reason FWD is used in production cars is that it's cheaper to package the whole drivetrain at the front + it saves space. Never used in a performance applications, Nissan tried it and failed miserably.

 

[Snowdog]

We are not talking rocket science or theoretical physics. People driving RWD cars in snow and up in a ditch faster.

It's hard to dispute that if you've actually driven in a snow. .

I have driven in over 20 years of Eastern Canadian Winters, and I dispute that as FUD based on ignorance.

Currently, my only car is Mazda MX-5 (AKA Miata) and it is the best handling snow car I have ever owned.

"RWD is terrible in snow" is a persistent myth, that I run into whenever people find out what I am driving in the winter: "How do you stay on the road?"

The reality is that this myth is based on experience/report of someone trying to drive a RWD sports car/sedan on summer tires in the snow, usually a car from decades ago with most of the weight over the front axle. There are two real issues. Summer tires and poor weight distribution. Neither of these issue should be present with decently balanced RWD car with good tires (MX-5, Tesla).

The only time I have ever lost control in the snow, was in a FWD car. FWD can lose control in slippery conditions while slowing down, as it is already front heavy, the weight transfer off the rear wheels makes it very easy to lose the back end, and it is extremely hard to catch this kind of slide. It is much more dangerous than RWD slide. This is exactly what happened to me in my FWD car, the only time I ever ended up ditching a car, in over 20 years of Winter driving.

RWD is not a problem. Poor tires and poor weight distribution are. RWD is actually better most of the time as you separate steering from accelerating, you have more traction available for each job.

 

[nd4spd569]

Note that it is more efficient only at highway speeds. It will be less efficient in stop and go traffic.

Good to know. Being in SoCal I'd guess more than half my drivin is in traffic.... Yay. For autopilot. Now I'm reconsidering dual motors. Thanks for making this more difficult come options time!

 

[JonathanD]

FWD came into existence primarily for cost reasons, with some utility as a side benefit (no hump). In older cars it can be easier to handle in snow because you "point" in the direction you want to go with FWD, whereas RWD you have to understand how steer into a slide, etc. That's not really relevant any longer, because traction control has become so advanced. Between software and good snow tires, RWD is no longer an issue for snow driving. AWD really comes into play with steep grades where traction is more of an issue.

 

[Knobby]

I've been driving a RWD BMW 323i for 10 years in Alberta and Ontario for the last 8. With good snows on all fours, and its DSC, or ASC or whatever it is called it is great in snow. No problem at all. My MS is classic RWD, and I'm glad Model 3 is going to be available as RWD. I reserved one. Love RWD. It's great. FWD exists because it's a cost reduction for the manufacturers.

 

[CuriousG]

I'm in SoCal and I plan on getting a AWD even though I don't need it. It's because despite the weight it's actually more efficient hence the higher mileage rating.

The base model will most likely be 60kWh battery. On the Model S, a 70kWh battery gets 230mi while the dual motor adds an additional 10mi. Yes it's more efficient but it might be a hard sell to some people given the ~$5k for dual motor option and minor performance bump in 0-60.

 

[tpoltron]

And because you can vector your thrust and even steer back and forth searching for traction when the snow is getting deep.....

 

[Xminus6]

Our family has a RAV 4 EV that has a Tesla drivetrain. It's FWD and the wheels cannot handle the torque when you really get on it. I wouldn't want that much power going anywhere but rear or AWD personally.

We have one too. It's clear to me that the car was sorry of cobbled together as the chassis clearly can't deal with the torque of the drivetrain. I like the car part but it does feel a lot like two cars stuck together.

 

[sandpiper]

FWD is "better" in the snow because the weight of the engine is on the drive wheels. That's irrelevant in the Model 3.

No. FWD is better in the snow because you're steering the driving wheels. With a bit of skill, you can almost always recover traction by steering in the direction of travel and easing up on the throttle. Even if you're not skilled enough to do that, you can oversteer, give a bit of gas and the driving wheels will continue to drag you around the corner, mostly in the direction that you want to go. Since the rears don't drive, it's pretty tough to completely lose them.... stay off of the brakes and they will mostly still follow the fronts.

RWD is much more unstable... once you lose traction the rear end of the vehicle will pivot to the outside of the turn, causing the drive wheels to slide at an angle to the direction of vehicle travel. Once that's happened, there's no easy way to recover them. The best that you can do is to angle the steering wheels to the direction of travel, keep off of the brakes and hope like heck that the rear wheels hit a dry patch and pendulum back into line with the fronts.

As a (former!) teenager living up north, I spent much winter time goofing around in empty parking lots in a variety of cars, long before ABS or traction control. FWD is far safer and more stable.... to the point that it really isn't a whole lot of fun!