Boombox killed off - what’s next?

[TarmacSurfer]

I thought the Boombox feature was kind of neat and the kids liked it when I’d fool them into thinking an ice cream truck was driving by. Now that’s been killed off (along with passengers being able to play solitaire and other games, the addition of more nanny nags, etc.) and I’m starting to feel a sense of dread creeping in that bureaucrats and lawyers are starting to worm their way into Tesla’s decision-making to the point it’s eventually going to neuter the joy out of our vehicles and turn them into being soulless, boring and dull - exactly what I didn’t want when I bought in. Software “updates” used to be fun (“ooh I wonder what they’ll add this time!”) - like Christmas morning. Now I’m starting to dread them (“what thing are they going to change or get rid of now to appease some uptight suit?”)

I bought the Tesla because it was innovative, new and different - something that was attempting to redefine what people saw “automobile” as being. I didn’t want just another soulless car, yet it seems that someone is hell-bent on beating them into becoming just that. How long will it be before the autopilot gets killed off? Or heaven forbid the “emissions testing” screen? They touch that one and it’s time to bust out the pitchforks and torches!

I’m ranting a bit but for one, I like the Tesla being a geeky engi-nerd toy and having lots of silly extras and things that set it apart from every other boring cage out there on the road.

Thoughts?

Is Tesla giving in too much? Any new / fun things coming soon to help set our vehicles apart? I don’t want to lose the love!

 

[Birdsfan]

Being as plaintiff attorneys are souless scum sucking slime it doesn't surprise me much that Tesla has to rethink certain things they offer. In a normal world these things are fine but in the bizarro world of litigation it's everyone's else fault but the actual person that caused the problem....my rant

 

[OliverM3]

I mean it was only a matter of time. I'm sure we'll have to make noise while rolling forward as well at some point. I don't really understand the noise rule though if you can see them and they should be watching the road how does adding external noise do anything for safety? Is it because you can't cross the street while wearing airpods and texting your friends with your face in your phone? I enjoyed my completely silent chevy volt which was before the noise laws. It had a nice pedestrian horn button on the stalk that let out a lower pitch friendly beep.

Tesla hits mute on "Boombox" feature, was drowning out federally mandated pedestrian warning sounds

The EV maker will issue an over-the-air software update to disable Boombox mode while vehicles are in drive, neutral, or reverse.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[brancky3]

I mean it was only a matter of time. I'm sure we'll have to make noise while rolling forward as well at some point. I don't really understand the noise rule though if you can see them and they should be watching the road how does adding external noise do anything for safety? Is it because you can't cross the street while wearing airpods and texting your friends with your face in your phone? I enjoyed my completely silent chevy volt which was before the noise laws. It had a nice pedestrian horn button on the stalk that let out a lower pitch friendly beep.

Tesla hits mute on "Boombox" feature, was drowning out federally mandated pedestrian warning sounds

The EV maker will issue an over-the-air software update to disable Boombox mode while vehicles are in drive, neutral, or reverse.

www.greencarreports.com

Blind people exist.

 

[OliverM3]

Blind people exist.

I'll have to check my M3 I don't recall it making any sounds while moving forward only in reverse, Edit just checked youtube hmm I guess it does never noticed that slight hum.

 

[BMWM3Man]

Meh still the only car I'd own...

 

[helvio]

We already lost entertainment for the passenger (Solitaire, Polytopia, Shoot em Up) - like passengers can't play on their phones / tablets?
Now we lose Boombox which was really fantastic and underrated - like people can't open the window and scream?

Please pick your votes more carefully next time.

 

[Relayer]

I never had a speaker, so I never had boombox. There are times when I'm trying to get past people walking and they don't know I'm there. I usually just wait, but it would be nice if there was a chime or something. Other than that I prefer my car to be silent the rest of the time.

 

[Raurele]

I thought the Boombox feature was kind of neat and the kids liked it when I’d fool them into thinking an ice cream truck was driving by. Now that’s been killed off (along with passengers being able to play solitaire and other games, the addition of more nanny nags, etc.) and I’m starting to feel a sense of dread creeping in that bureaucrats and lawyers are starting to worm their way into Tesla’s decision-making to the point it’s eventually going to neuter the joy out of our vehicles and turn them into being soulless, boring and dull - exactly what I didn’t want when I bought in. Software “updates” used to be fun (“ooh I wonder what they’ll add this time!”) - like Christmas morning. Now I’m starting to dread them (“what thing are they going to change or get rid of now to appease some uptight suit?”)

I bought the Tesla because it was innovative, new and different - something that was attempting to redefine what people saw “automobile” as being. I didn’t want just another soulless car, yet it seems that someone is hell-bent on beating them into becoming just that. How long will it be before the autopilot gets killed off? Or heaven forbid the “emissions testing” screen? They touch that one and it’s time to bust out the pitchforks and torches!

I’m ranting a bit but for one, I like the Tesla being a geeky engi-nerd toy and having lots of silly extras and things that set it apart from every other boring cage out there on the road.

Thoughts?

Is Tesla giving in too much? Any new / fun things coming soon to help set our vehicles apart? I don’t want to lose the love!

It works for me on the newest version. You can hear coconuts outside when I drive under 25

 

[Daniel L]

I never had a speaker, so I never had boombox. There are times when I'm trying to get past people walking and they don't know I'm there. I usually just wait, but it would be nice if there was a chime or something. Other than that I prefer my car to be silent the rest of the time.

That was the only time I used the boombox feature - it worked great for gently getting pedestrians out of the way without using the horn

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Tesla didn't "give in". They did everything possible to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their PWS system was fully compliant with FMVSS 141 - which it absolutely and obviously is. But by NHTSA's definition, playing loud music with your windows down will make your car difficult for pedestrians to notice and thus subject to a recall that disables your windows and/or radio.

Chronology:

• On or about December 24, 2020, Tesla began deploying firmware release 2020.48.25 over-the-air (“OTA”) to affected vehicles. The release introduced Boombox.
• On January 15, 2021, NHTSA issued an information request (OA-141-210104) to investigate Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On February 5, 2021, Tesla responded to the information request, explaining feature performance and demonstrating its compliance with FMVSS 141.
• Over the next several months, Tesla responded to additional information requests from NHTSA and participated in a number of virtual meetings with the Agency.
• On September 9, 2021, NHTSA upgraded the investigation to a Preliminary Evaluation (PE-141-210104) and requested additional information from Tesla relating to Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On October 18, 2021, Tesla responded to NHTSA’s request, further demonstrating and defending the tests performed and rationale used to determine Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On January 27 and 28, 2022, NHTSA and Tesla further discussed Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On January 29, 2022, Tesla decided to voluntarily recall and disable Boombox functionality in Drive, Neutral and Reverse modes with an OTA firmware update.

 

[Raurele]

Tesla didn't "give in". They did everything possible to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their PWS system was fully compliant with FMVSS 141 - which it absolutely and obviously is. But by NHTSA's definition, playing loud music with your windows down will make your car difficult for pedestrians to notice and thus subject to a recall that disables your windows and/or radio.

Chronology:

• On or about December 24, 2020, Tesla began deploying firmware release 2020.48.25 over-the-air (“OTA”) to affected vehicles. The release introduced Boombox.
• On January 15, 2021, NHTSA issued an information request (OA-141-210104) to investigate Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On February 5, 2021, Tesla responded to the information request, explaining feature performance and demonstrating its compliance with FMVSS 141.
• Over the next several months, Tesla responded to additional information requests from NHTSA and participated in a number of virtual meetings with the Agency.
• On September 9, 2021, NHTSA upgraded the investigation to a Preliminary Evaluation (PE-141-210104) and requested additional information from Tesla relating to Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On October 18, 2021, Tesla responded to NHTSA’s request, further demonstrating and defending the tests performed and rationale used to determine Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On January 27 and 28, 2022, NHTSA and Tesla further discussed Boombox’s compliance with FMVSS 141.
• On January 29, 2022, Tesla decided to voluntarily recall and disable Boombox functionality in Drive, Neutral and Reverse modes with an OTA firmware update.

I’m running the most recent update, and when I’m going under 25, you can hear coconuts. And when I honk, it makes my custom sound. What did they remove?

 

[valaeyron]

Tesla didn't "give in". They did everything possible to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their PWS system was fully compliant with FMVSS 141 - which it absolutely and obviously is. But by NHTSA's definition, playing loud music with your windows down will make your car difficult for pedestrians to notice and thus subject to a recall that disables your windows and/or radio.

Being fully compliant but potentially negating the safety effect is understandably concerning. Yes, I agree it’s a bit inconsistent but most people do not use their car stereo systems so loudly that they negate their engine’s noise...and society generally accepts longstanding practices even if they do not make sense anymore.

Since there is no other sound made by an EV, I can understand why the safety folks think a standard set of sounds that cannot be altered is important. That way, everyone associates the sound with an EV. Just like most people understand what car / truck / heavy machinery motors sound like.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Tesla never allowed any alteration of the pedestrian warning sound - they were always in full compliance of the law.

The Boombox feature only played *additional* sounds/music *in addition* to the *unalterable* pedestrian warning sound which is essentially the same as rolling down your window with the radio on. The NHTSA staff must therefore recall every car with window and radio capability on the same grounds, or confess to their corruption.

 

[valaeyron]

The Boombox feature only played *additional* sounds/music *in addition* to the *unalterable* pedestrian warning sound which is essentially the same as rolling down your window with the radio on. The NHTSA staff must therefore recall every car with window and radio capability on the same grounds, or confess to their corruption.

Yes, the PWS played both sounds at the same time through the same speaker. Concurrently. That is altering the sound emitted from that device. It’s picky, yes, but not related to the separate speaker system in a regular car. Those do not actually modify the noise of the ENGINE.

If you’re going to level corruption accusations at people and thereby also smear their character, ethics, and morals - please provide actual evidence.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

You are correct that the PWS sounds and the Boombox sounds were both played thru the same car. Just as other cars make engine noises and music sounds thru the same car.

I know you're trying to point out that Boombox used some of the same wiring as PWS, but pedestrians don't care about the schematic. They just need to hear the unaltered sounds and a single speaker can easily play unaltered PWS sounds and unaltered Boombox sounds simultaneously - that's precisely what speakers are optimized for.

 

[valaeyron]

You are correct that the PWS sounds and the Boombox sounds were both played thru the same car. Just as other cars make engine noises and music sounds thru the same car.

I know you're trying to point out that Boombox used some of the same wiring as PWS, but pedestrians don't care about the schematic. They just need to hear the unaltered sounds and a single speaker can easily play unaltered PWS sounds and unaltered Boombox sounds simultaneously - that's precisely what speakers are optimized for.

It’s both the same car and SAME speaker which in the case of an EV is substituting for the engine noise. I never mentioned wires, don’t misstate please.

Long and short in 99.999% of cases of people playing music while driving their car, pedestrians and others hear the engine and/or feel the rumble, etc. Whether you turbo, add an intake, exhaust delete…a mechanical engine sounds like an engine. It seems that out of caution right now, NHTSA has decided that the sounds made by a PWS should similarly not be confused with anything else. That’s got nothing to do with wiring.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

A speaker is little more than a coil of wire, and I think we really are arguing about schematics here - if Tesla had slightly altered the wiring diagram to include an extra speaker such that the sounds generated *by the same shared amplifier* would travel thru 2 separate wires to 2 separate speakers, one dedicated to PWS and one dedicated to Boombox, then this topic wouldn't have even come up, right?

But my first point is that it doesn't matter whether you have one speaker or two. Speakers are perfectly capable of playing multiple disparate sounds simultaneously - that's what they do best. And a pedestrian can't tell if the sound is coming from one speaker or two, nor do they care - they only care if the sound is coming from one car or two. They're not interested in your wiring schematics.

And my second point is that nearly every car has a radio that's easily able to overpower the engine noise from a pedestrian's perspective. So NHTSA's ruling that any car with the ability to overwhelm it's "car sounds" with "other sounds" must be recalled means that nearly every car ever produced must be recalled.

 

[valaeyron]

A speaker is little more than a coil of wire, and I think we really are arguing about schematics here - if Tesla had slightly altered the wiring diagram to include an extra speaker such that the sounds generated *by the same shared amplifier* would travel thru 2 separate wires to 2 separate speakers, one dedicated to PWS and one dedicated to Boombox, then this topic wouldn't have even come up, right?

But my first point is that it doesn't matter whether you have one speaker or two. Speakers are perfectly capable of playing multiple disparate sounds simultaneously. And a pedestrian can't tell if the sound is coming from one speaker or two, nor do they care.

And my second point is that nearly every car has a radio that's easily able to overpower the engine noise from a pedestrian's perspective. So NHTSA's ruling that any car with the ability to overwhelm it's "car sounds" with "other sounds" must be recalled means that nearly every car ever produced must be recalled.

So I’m not NHTSA, I’m just saying the reports seem to suggest this line of logic and it does make sense to me. Yes it’s nit picky. Oh well.

NHTSA’s recall safety report does not mention to overwhelming the car sounds in general, or via the stereo system, etc. I’ve read it, and it seems clear they believe, as the regulator, that the boom box feature CAN be interpreted to interfere with the sound requirements in FMVSS 141 when the car is in motion.

No offense, but you’ve a) clearly not read their recall carefully, and b) are clearly mixing the angle here to emphasize your desired conclusion.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

True, I had only read the part about FMVSS 141 forbidding any alteration of the PWS sound, which Boombox does not (normally) do.

But "reading the recall carefully" I see that NHTSA actually praised the Boombox feature:
"Boombox can enhance the conspicuity of the vehicle to pedestrians"

and even noted the nominal non-interference:
"Boombox and the pedestrian alert sound are mutually exclusive sounds"

They actually seem to have no objection to Boombox at all, they were only pointing out that someone could conceivably create a custom noise-canceling inverse of the PWS sound to effectively silence it:
"sounds emitted using Boombox could be construed to obscure or prevent the PWS from complying with FMVSS 141"

So then it would seem that @TarmacSurfer was correct about Tesla backing down easily. They could have simply disabled custom sounds or devised a validation check to detect noise cancellation attempts. But with all their fights over side mirrors, phantom braking, emergency vehicle targeting, yokes, FSD, matrix headlights, etc., it seems they opted to choose their battles wisely instead.

But NHTSA was very foolish. Now instead of people finding a noise cancelling sound and enabling it every time they drive, those who dislike the PWS will simply unplug the speaker.