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Blog Boring Company Opens Vegas Loop



The Boring Company’s people-moving “Loop” be beneath the Las Vegas Convention Center started carrying passengers this week.

The $52.5 million tunnel is filled with Tesla vehicles that carry passengers around the 1.7-mile stretch.

The construction took about 18 months and was finished about two months ago. The system is ten-times faster than walking around the convention center.

“We’re grateful to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority and all local stakeholders for providing us the opportunity to construct our first commercial project in one of the world’s most dynamic destinations,” Boring Co. President Steve Davis said in a statement reported by The Los Angeles Business Journal. “We are proud to have developed and delivered an exciting transportation solution to the Las Vegas Convention Center.”

The Loop currently consists of three passenger stations.  Passengers can travel the entire route in about two minutes at speeds of up to 40 miles per hour. The company ultimately plans to use a fleet of 62 Tesla vehicles that can carry up to 4,400 people per hour.

 
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DarkandStormy

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Hey Dan- CES going on right now.

Reports are the system is working great and nobody is waiting in those 30+ minute lines you insisted would be there.


100,000 attendees. No issues, no long lines.


Tweet does not indicate when the video was taken, but presumably during CES?

Anyway, the contract doesn't state "no issues, no long lines." It states they'll move 4,400 passengers/hour. No data exists yet that they've hit that mark, though it doesn't appear Las Vegas wants to issue penalties anyway.
 

Knightshade

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Asphyxiate?

Are you citing sources so dumb they think Teslas have tailpipes?

Bonus stupid at no point was the car really stopped, and they got from "approaching a car in front to inside the delivery hall" in under 60 seconds.

Some "traffic jam"


FUDsters getting extra desperate with this garbage eh?


Anyway, the contract doesn't state "no issues, no long lines." It states they'll move 4,400 passengers/hour. No data exists yet that they've hit that mark

I mean other than the all the data showing they hit that mark in testing, sure.


The Boring Company’s (TBC) test drives for its Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC) exceeded 4,400 passengers per hour, according to results revealed on May 29. Steve Hill, the Chief Executive Officer and President of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority



But yes other than all known info, including public statements from the actual customer here- there's nothing to back it up.
 
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DarkandStormy

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Asphyxiate?

Are you citing sources so dumb they think Teslas have tailpipes?

Bonus stupid at no point was the car really stopped, and they got from "approaching a car in front to inside the delivery hall" in under 60 seconds.

Some "traffic jam"


FUDsters getting extra desperate with this garbage eh?




I mean other than the all the data showing they hit that mark in testing, sure.






But yes other than all known info, including public statements from the actual customer here- there's nothing to back it up.

Ignore the wording in the tweet and watch. It's precisely what Musk/Boring said would not happen.

Steve Hill and others acknowledged the test was merely several dozen volunteers getting into and out of cars. Not an actual convention. Please cite a convention where the loop delivered 4,400 people per hour, instead of some testers. A little bit different when you have people who don't know exactly where to go or what to do.

Per the contract: https://assets.simpleviewcms.com/si...PHOB_4c888ce2-19e4-40ae-974e-beae692c2358.pdf

the Authority has determined to issue the “Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, Nevada [Taxable] Revenue Bonds, Series 2019B” (the “2019B Bonds”), for the purpose of defraying, wholly or in part, the costs of acquiring, constructing, reconstructing, improving and equipping recreational facilities in the County, including, without limitation, the expansion and renovation of buildings and other improvements at and in the vicinity of the convention center, real property, structures, fixtures, furniture and equipment therefore and all appurtenances and incidentals necessary, useful or desirable thereto, and a people mover which will interconnect the convention center via a loop of underground express-route tunnels and carry passengers in autonomous electric vehicles at high speeds, or any other qualified capital expenditure of the Authority, paying capitalized interest on the Bonds (if any), and paying the costs of issuance of the 2019B Bonds (collectively, the “Project”)

Boring Company is in violation of their contract every time they employ a driver rather than using an autonomous vehicle.

Like I said, Vegas doesn't seem to mind. I haven't seen it publicized that they want to levy any of the penalties they are legally entitled to. Regardless, the loop (so far) is far short of what was promised and does not meet the contractual obligations at present.
 

Knightshade

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Ignore the wording in the tweet and watch. It's precisely what Musk/Boring said would not happen.

Steve Hill and others acknowledged the test was merely several dozen volunteers getting into and out of cars. Not an actual convention. Please cite a convention where the loop delivered 4,400 people per hour, instead of some testers. A little bit different when you have people who don't know exactly where to go or what to do.

Please cite one where anybody is waiting any significant time for a car to pick them up in the system.

There's a pandemic going on, AFAIK, there haven't been 4400 people an hour at a convention to fill the system up beyond that limit.

They have to be ABLE to move that many people- and the test shows they are.

They don't have to FORCE that many people to show up and use the system each hour. Obviously.


YOU claimed there was NO evidence it could do 4400 an hour. That was an outright lie.

When I cited a source proving it, you shoved the goalposts to "No evidence it did that during a convention" instead.



Per the contract: https://assets.simpleviewcms.com/si...PHOB_4c888ce2-19e4-40ae-974e-beae692c2358.pdf



Boring Company is in violation of their contract every time they employ a driver rather than using an autonomous vehicle.


The text you quote is the reason for issuing bonds-it defines what the bond $ can be spent on-- it's not a specific requirement imposed on TBC for vehicle function and even adds a "or any other qualified capital expenditure " disclaimer.

Absolutely no "penalty" exists in what you cite for running non-autonomous. Your claim is does it yet another outright lie.




if you can't argue honestly maybe consider you aren't presenting an honest argument?



Hilariously, your own source specifically says they hadn't even determined all the requirements yet- no 4400 limit cited there at all.

Page 8 your own source said:
The final location and capacity of each station shall be determined during the initial phases
of the system design



Maybe try reading the source next time before claiming it says stuff it doesn't?
 

Knightshade

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Here, BTW, is an actual TBC/LVCA contract-


The specific terms of "autonomous" operation are covered in section 4.6

An ACTUAL contract said:
Manager shall endeavor to achive autonomous opertations within six months of the first date of service for a convention or trade show or as soon as possible. Manager shall achive such autonomous operations by obtaining appropriate regulatory approvals, wich may include an amusement and transportation systems permit, to operate autonomously from the Clark County Department of Building and Fire Prevention"


This makes it clear they are NOT required to operate autonomously from the start.... and aren't even obligation to do so AT ALL until they can obtain all needed regulatory approvals.

Numerous sources last year cited Clark County delaying or failing to issue some approvals as among the reasons for not deploying this yet- that's beyond TBCs control.

Further- No penalty is called out for not hitting any target date for autonomous service at all


So your claim they owe anything for manual operation today appears....yet another factually untrue claim from you.
 

Knightshade

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Jul 31, 2017
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BTW-



Note that the entire south exhibition hall was closed during CES, with nothing happening there, and the station thus not operating either..... (likely in part because what used to be a 100,000+ person convention saw only about 40,000 attendees and many exhibitors also didn't show up in person).


Meaning, the convention center itself had shut down 1/3rd of the stations, so at only 2/3/rds capability TBC still moved over 3100 people per hour... or over 1550 people per open station.

1550 times 3 is, of course, more than 4400.

Seems they filled the contract terms just fine.... as mentioned TBC isn't required to FORCE extra people into the convention center to use the system, they only need be capable of moving that many with all 3 stations in operation- and it appears, just like during previous testing, they were.
 

DarkandStormy

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BTW-



Note that the entire south exhibition hall was closed during CES, with nothing happening there, and the station thus not operating either..... (likely in part because what used to be a 100,000+ person convention saw only about 40,000 attendees and many exhibitors also didn't show up in person).


Meaning, the convention center itself had shut down 1/3rd of the stations, so at only 2/3/rds capability TBC still moved over 3100 people per hour... or over 1550 people per open station.

1550 times 3 is, of course, more than 4400.

Seems they filled the contract terms just fine.... as mentioned TBC isn't required to FORCE extra people into the convention center to use the system, they only need be capable of moving that many with all 3 stations in operation- and it appears, just like during previous testing, they were.

That's cute. They're moving roughly the same # of people hour as the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disney.
 

DarkandStormy

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Apr 16, 2021
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Here, BTW, is an actual TBC/LVCA contract-


The specific terms of "autonomous" operation are covered in section 4.6




This makes it clear they are NOT required to operate autonomously from the start.... and aren't even obligation to do so AT ALL until they can obtain all needed regulatory approvals.

Numerous sources last year cited Clark County delaying or failing to issue some approvals as among the reasons for not deploying this yet- that's beyond TBCs control.

Further- No penalty is called out for not hitting any target date for autonomous service at all


So your claim they owe anything for manual operation today appears....yet another factually untrue claim from you.

Fire regulations peg the occupant capacity in the load and unload zones of one of the Loop’s three stations at just 800 passengers an hour. If the other stations have similar limitations, the system might only be able to transport 1,200 people an hour — around a quarter of its promised capacity.

If TBC misses its performance target by such a margin, Musk’s company will not receive more than $13 million of its construction budget — and will face millions more in penalty charges once the system becomes operational.

Interesting. Is TBC not following fire regulations?

After another milestone for the completion of a test period and safety report, the system’s final three milestones relate to how many passengers it can carry. If the Loop can demonstrate moving 2,200 passengers an hour, TBC will get $4.4 million, then the same payment again for hitting 3,300, and the same again for 4,400 passengers an hour. Together, these capacity payments represent 30% of the fixed price contract.

Even if TBC achieved those numbers during testing, the LVCVA was worried that it might not be able to maintain them once the system was operational, so it inserted yet another requirement: “[TBC] acknowledges liquidated damages are applicable for [TBC’s] failure to provide System Capacity for Full Facility Trade Show Events.”

For each large trade show that TBC fails to transport an average capacity of 3,960 passengers per hour for 13 hours, it will have to pay LVCVA $300,000 in damages. If TBC keeps falling short, it keeps paying, up to a maximum of $4.5 million.

Try reading the contract. Cheers.
 

pete8314

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Jun 4, 2012
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BTW-

Note that the entire south exhibition hall was closed during CES, with nothing happening there, and the station thus not operating either.....
South was open, but just for media. The cars were running there, but obviously, the vast majority were going between West & Central. We rode it 3 times, twice in a Y, once in an X (which were prioritized for ADA).We never had a wait. For what it is, it works well. Many conversations overheard about people thinking it was cool. No doubt, great exposure for Tesla. But I don't know why they're not running on autopilot, it's one of the most controlled environments a Tesla will ever find itself in, and only ever with other Teslas. I assume they'll eventually move to AP for the tunnels, then for the pick up/drop-off (which is less structured/predictable).
 

Knightshade

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Interesting. Is TBC not following fire regulations?


I've seen no evidence that's true.

I have seen evidence you make lots of untrue claims though- pointed out several, with sources catching you lying, in just the last 10 posts or so.


Here, for example, where you're spreading FUD (all your post seem to ever do) by citing "planning documents" filed almost 2 years ago, before the final system was even completed and operational-- as if those are somehow final production numbers.

Or where you claimed the contract had financial penalties for manually driven cars- yet another factually untrue claim of yours.



Try reading the contract. Cheers.

I did.

in fact unlike you I linked to an actual contract instead of misunderstanding out of date meeting minutes that didn't even say what you thought they did.


The actual contract I linked to directly contradicts your untrue claims. I cited it doing so.

Apparently you're bad at reading both contracts and forum posts :)
 

moa999

2020 3 SR+ MSM
Mar 4, 2020
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This makes it clear they are NOT required to operate autonomously from the start.... and aren't even obligation to do so AT ALL until they can obtain all needed regulatory approvals.

Numerous sources last year cited Clark County delaying or failing to issue some approvals as among the reasons for not deploying this yet- that's beyond TBCs control.
Any detail on why Clark County isn't offering autonomous approvals, even if it's just using Autopilot with drive supervision?

Seems pretty embarrassing for Tesla that they can't use their tech in a gently curving tunnel with well marked lines.
 

Knightshade

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Jul 31, 2017
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Any detail on why Clark County isn't offering autonomous approvals, even if it's just using Autopilot with drive supervision?

Seems pretty embarrassing for Tesla that they can't use their tech in a gently curving tunnel with well marked lines.


Don't know specific details, but even that techcrunch link posted earlier mentions it

tc story said:
TechCrunch has been told that Clark County regulators have approved just 11 human-driven vehicles so far, set strict speed limits and forbidden the use of on-board collision-avoidance technology that is part of Tesla’s “full self-driving” Autopilot advanced driver assistance system.


We know the # of cars allowed has been increased since then.... the 4450 per hour capacity test was done with 62 cars.... and CES just now had 70 cars running... but haven't seen further word on changes to restrictions about speed limits or use of automation.

Maybe Dark and Stormy has a cousin on the board or something? :)
 
I've seen no evidence that's true.

I have seen evidence you make lots of untrue claims though- pointed out several, with sources catching you lying, in just the last 10 posts or so.


Here, for example, where you're spreading FUD (all your post seem to ever do) by citing "planning documents" filed almost 2 years ago, before the final system was even completed and operational-- as if those are somehow final production numbers.

Or where you claimed the contract had financial penalties for manually driven cars- yet another factually untrue claim of yours.





I did.

in fact unlike you I linked to an actual contract instead of misunderstanding out of date meeting minutes that didn't even say what you thought they did.


The actual contract I linked to directly contradicts your untrue claims. I cited it doing so.

Apparently you're bad at reading both contracts and forum posts :)


The Boring Company has some potential risks with the LVCC Loop. A contract signed by the tunneling startup in 2019 indicates a $300,000 penalty for each large convention where the tunneling startup fails to move around 4,000 people per hour.

TBC has yet to hit this mark at an actual convention. And like I've said, there's been no public indication from the LVCC that they're going to levy the penalty against TBC regardless.


At SEMA, a couple competed to see who could get to the next hall first (I think West to Central, but I'm not 100% sure). One went on foot, one took the Loop (ignore them calling it the "hyperloop" - a common misconception among those who don't know the difference). As you watch the video, you can see it's not even the busiest that place gets. The woman took the Loop and even got placed to the front of the line because she was a single rider.

You'll never guess who won.

Anyway, all of these demonstrations show how laughable this "solution" is. Trams in Europe move ~28,000 people per hour - 7x the number TBC is trying to hit in Vegas. If TBC/Elon really wanted to "solve" traffic, they'd put in transportation vehicles that carried more than ~3 people at a time. Of course, that was never the goal. It's all a free advertisement for Tesla.

This seems to be going nowhere. I'm pointing out faults with the system, how TBC isn't living up to its end of the contract, subjecting themselves to fines, etc. and you want to pretend those doesn't exist. That's fine. I don't really care either way. I'll mute this thread so I don't clutter your feed with more FUD facts you don't like. Cheers.
 

Knightshade

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Jul 31, 2017
14,029
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TBC has yet to hit this mark at an actual convention. And like I've said, there's been no public indication from the LVCC that they're going to levy the penalty against TBC regardless.


THey haven't done anything to earn a penalty.

First- you lied and said there was a penalty for not running autonomous.

When I cited the actual contract showing that was a lie, you continually refused to back up your (false) claim and are back to "they have to move X number of people" which is a separate part of the contract from the autonomy bit (which you lied about)

And then you manage to get that wrong too.

TBC does not suffer any penalty if attendence is such there aren't 4000 people an hour TRYING to use the system.

For what I expect are, to at least everyone but you, glaringly obvious reasons.

They only need to have the capacity to do so if that many show up.

Which there's been 0 evidence they don't have.

And actual testing showing they do

Further, if you run the math from CES, but add the third station that wasn't operating, they showed capability of moving more than 4000 an hour there too.



Whatever someone is paying you to spread false claims and FUD- they're overpaying.


This seems to be going nowhere.

Sure it is.

You tell a lie.

I point out it's a lie and provide documentation it is one.

You ignore getting caught lying again and move to a different lie, which I also correct with actual evidence.

It's FUD whackamole.

I only need 5 more tickets to win the bear!
 

Dan D.

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Dec 7, 2020
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TBC has yet to hit this mark at an actual convention. And like I've said, there's been no public indication from the LVCC that they're going to levy the penalty against TBC regardless.


At SEMA, a couple competed to see who could get to the next hall first (I think West to Central, but I'm not 100% sure). One went on foot, one took the Loop (ignore them calling it the "hyperloop" - a common misconception among those who don't know the difference). As you watch the video, you can see it's not even the busiest that place gets. The woman took the Loop and even got placed to the front of the line because she was a single rider.
That SEMA walk vs Loop race video does show the limitations of the Loop. You have to get to the Loop first, which takes some time if it's out of your way, plus the girl in the video had difficulty finding it. Then line up inside (Central station) or outside which could be hot - though nobody has complained about this yet as it's winter. Then after reaching the other station you may need to walk some distance.

The transit time is oft quoted as two minutes, but that doesn't nearly take into account the time it actually takes you to get from where you are standing to where you want to be. As this couple demonstrated it was actually quicker to walk from their start location to their end location. However the guy did complain about his long walk being hard on his feet, and the girl complained about it being difficult to find the station, and the long lines.

I'd like to see more real tests of actual time comparisons from a given location in the convention center to another location. Real world tests. Almost every article and video repeats the PR spin about the Loop being quicker - once you're seated in the car yes, but that's not accounting for the time to get to the car and line up for your turn.

I'm glad that people are enjoying it. That is a huge part of the experience, and if users are happy then it's a success, even if it's not entirely meeting up with the design expectations yet.
 

Knightshade

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Jul 31, 2017
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That SEMA walk vs Loop race video does show the limitations of the Loop. You have to get to the Loop first, which takes some time if it's out of your way, plus the girl in the video had difficulty finding it. Then line up inside (Central station) or outside which could be hot - though nobody has complained about this yet as it's winter. Then after reaching the other station you may need to walk some distance.

The transit time is oft quoted as two minutes, but that doesn't nearly take into account the time it actually takes you to get from where you are standing to where you want to be. As this couple demonstrated it was actually quicker to walk from their start location to their end location. However the guy did complain about his long walk being hard on his feet, and the girl complained about it being difficult to find the station, and the long lines.

I'd like to see more real tests of actual time comparisons from a given location in the convention center to another location. Real world tests. Almost every article and video repeats the PR spin about the Loop being quicker - once you're seated in the car yes, but that's not accounting for the time to get to the car and line up for your turn.

I'm glad that people are enjoying it. That is a huge part of the experience, and if users are happy then it's a success, even if it's not entirely meeting up with the design expectations yet.


FWIW average wait time at CES was about 15 seconds.

They've increased the # of cars, and presumably improved the running of the system overall, since SEMA.

Ideally they've also improved signage since the woman in the video seemed repeatedly confused about where anything was or how to get anywhere (not just to the cars)




Jumping back for a sec to SEMA though- these reports below are from 5 different people from SEMA and describe wait times of only about a minute or two for a car in each report.




https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/qnmga9



Here they note the trip from west hall to south was 2 minutes and 26 seconds, the same route above ground waking took them 25 minutes.




This one actually has interesting data--- day 1 he walked across the convention center including between buildings... day 2 he covered the same parts of the convention center but used the loop for all between building trips.

Day 1 he walked 6.4 miles, day 2 only 4. He notes the walking between bit was 20-25 minutes, versus 2 in the tunnel. Pretty similar to the previous guys observations.



Note the above folks were covering significant parts of the halls so mainly cared about hall to hall since they were gonna need to walk all AROUND the halls anyway.

I suspect what you saw in the previous video was a combo of two mitigating factors:

1) As you note, the woman didn't seem to know where she was going- not to find the tunnel-- not to get into the hall once she exited the tunnel-- and not where she was meeting the guy in the other hall. I expect a ton of her extra time got eaten there.

2) Where they were starting may have been far from the station she went to (the west hall station is on the west side of the hall for example-- if they began on the east side of that hall he was already right next to the skybridge while she'd have had to walk across the whole hall to get to the west station.... likewise where they were meeting may have been on the west side of the central hall (where the skybridge takes you to), rather than the more central drop-off of the tunnel.


So certainly depending where you start, and if you're only going to one specific spot in another hall, it's possible the tunnel won't be your most efficient path... you'd get a similar experience on the other side if you were as far as possible from the eastern station for example and only needing to walk to the eastern-most part of the next building over.

But for folks actually needing to get around the whole campus-- which most big trade show visitors would be doing- we've got tons and tons of reports of it shaving 20ish minutes of walking between buildings off their day. And even for folks simply walking to LVCC from a hotel and needing to attend something on the other side of the campus it'd save considerable time for them.
(and a LOT more of it once other hotels become connected to the system)
 
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Right_Said_Fred

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TBC has yet to hit this mark at an actual convention. And like I've said, there's been no public indication from the LVCC that they're going to levy the penalty against TBC regardless.


At SEMA, a couple competed to see who could get to the next hall first (I think West to Central, but I'm not 100% sure). One went on foot, one took the Loop (ignore them calling it the "hyperloop" - a common misconception among those who don't know the difference). As you watch the video, you can see it's not even the busiest that place gets. The woman took the Loop and even got placed to the front of the line because she was a single rider.

You'll never guess who won.

Anyway, all of these demonstrations show how laughable this "solution" is. Trams in Europe move ~28,000 people per hour - 7x the number TBC is trying to hit in Vegas. If TBC/Elon really wanted to "solve" traffic, they'd put in transportation vehicles that carried more than ~3 people at a time. Of course, that was never the goal. It's all a free advertisement for Tesla.

This seems to be going nowhere. I'm pointing out faults with the system, how TBC isn't living up to its end of the contract, subjecting themselves to fines, etc. and you want to pretend those doesn't exist. That's fine. I don't really care either way. I'll mute this thread so I don't clutter your feed with more FUD facts you don't like. Cheers.

“Trams in Europe move ~28,000 people per hour - 7x the number TBC is trying to hit in Vegas.”

28,000 people an hour?? Are you talking about a single tram line? Or even a stretch with multiple converging tram lines? A tram can hold max. 100 people and stopping every few hundred meters, getting in and out and moving again takes a while. 28,000 people would mean 280 fully packed trams. That would be five trams per minute or one every 12 seconds. Utterly impossible.
 
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