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Boring Company

Discussion in 'The Boring Company' started by Grendal, May 17, 2018.

  1. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Reading that twitter exchange, it sounds like the Australian is first talking about just a tunnel and Musk is giving the cost for in high speed transit in tunnels with stations. But then when he responds to Musk he appears to acknowledge that Musk is not proposing just a tunnel for cars.

    1539ADE8-3BA5-4320-A3DB-2E7478E5104D.jpeg
     
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  2. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    High speed + mountain (no intermediate stations) could be great for hyperloop. But at only 50 km, platooned pods are likely more reasonable.
    (50km 120 mph is 15 minutes).
    With only one route, car skates might make sense versus self driving vehicles too. Easy to calculate number needed and positioning.

    Or just use an overthruster...
     
  3. ICUDoc

    ICUDoc Active Member

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    ecarfan, whilst the exchange you reproduce was done in good will, don't lead yourself or others into thinking that the state of NSW is big on useful long-term infrastructure projects. They like rebuilding football stadiums instead.
    A high-speed Sydney-Melbourne (with a spout to The National Capitol) rail link would save vast amounts of greenhouse gas and energy, but it seems to lack political support...
     
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  4. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    More interest:
    Elon Musk on Twitter

    We're gonna need a bigger TBM....
     
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  5. Electroman

    Electroman Supporting Member

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    I am sorry this company has not done one functioning (production ready) tunnel that the public is using today. All he did was bore a sewer sized unfinished hole, that was originally planned to have some fancy new 'skates' technology, but later scaled down to a Disney style ride in your own cars.

    And somehow I don't understand how that gives them the credibility to get contracts for actual tunnels that carry trains and people.

    People from real tunnel companies, who have been there done that, would be laughing their rear-ends off.

    The expectation is he will somehow magically get the SpaceX type success in every venture he gets in, but this is too premature in this case and the folks like CERN and Chicago city are getting ahead of the reality.
     
  6. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Someone has a case of the Mondays...

    Boring made a tunnel. Boring is still planning pods for people transport.
    Chicago is letting Boring pay for and build a transit system.
    CERN wants a tunnel, they don't want Boring to build a collider, they don't want vehicles. If anything, it is the closest to what they have accomplished...

    Do you have any reason (other than lack of data) to say Boring can't build tunnels?
     
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  7. Electroman

    Electroman Supporting Member

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    Has Boring built any production tunnels that are in use today?

    What is their resume?
     
  8. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    So you are going on lack of data?
    Application != ability to dig tunnel. Boring is both digger and transport, thus far the digger part is doing fine.

    Has Boring built any tunnels that have collapsed? No.
    Has Boring gotten any TBMs stuck? No.
    Have any Boring TBMs failed? No.

    So at this point, there is no data to say they are worst than any existing companies:

    Boston's Big Dig collapsed (at least partly)
    Berth got stuck (or failed) going under Seattle America's Biggest Tunnel-Boring Machine Is Stuck Beneath Seattle
    In Omaha, they got stuck Inside tunnel for new Omaha sewage pipe, machine gets stuck behind watery gravel and rocks, costing city an extra $2.75 million
    Stuck : Tunneling Machine Is Stuck Under Mountains
     
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  9. Electroman

    Electroman Supporting Member

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    I get it. This is like saying Honda Accords have not had a single Autopilot failures. So at this point it only points to that Hondas are better in L2 driving than Tesla.


    My rocket company has not had a single failure. I haven't built a rocket yet besides the backyard fireworks, nevertheless SpaceX has had more failures than me.
     
  10. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Boring has built a tunnel, you have not launched a rocket, Honda has not made an Autopilot.

    Being all gloom and doom with no basis for it it not helpful.

    CERN needs a tunnel, not skates, not pods, just a sealed tunnel to put their stuff in. At this point, is there anything to show that Boring could not build them such a tunnel? Or even that Boring is riskier than any other TBM company, other than lack of data?
     
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  11. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    No more training wheels
    Twitter
     
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  12. Electroman

    Electroman Supporting Member

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    I think my sarcasm fell flat.
     
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  13. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    or it took me 4 months to get the joke :)
     
  14. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    You Americans can't do sarcasm - stick to the simpler things in life like building rockets and stuff, if I were you....

     
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  15. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Senior Software Engineer

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    So its just a regular ole car tunnel but a tiny one...
     
  16. Sean Wagner

    Sean Wagner Member

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    Privileged access made for a max speed 127 mph... just never mind current evacuation procedures.
     
  17. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    He references the Robbins Co as the speed kings. They have nice animations for how TBMs work:
     
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  18. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  19. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Elon thinking about something like this:



    Elon Musk on Twitter
    Makes sense as always. Weld from the inside. Welder would rotate rather than the tube. Increases speed at the from end but also simplifies logistics - no concrete to get to the front alongside the spoil going out.
     
  20. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    The question regarding spiral welding Super Heavy was raised by KarenRei at the beginning of the year. Twitter

    He mentions in that tweet that the hyperloop is spiral welded. That one was made in free space which is easier

    For a positive pressure tunnel, they will still need to pump slurry to the front to seal and fill the tunnel to excavation gap. Pumping is easier than solid segments though.

    Elon mentions reinforcement which may relate to the rebar in the segments versus the tunnel itself.
    If he is talking rebar, that is also interesting. Feeding and bending rebar is much simpler that sheet stock. Concrete pipe uses a similar technique with rebar on the long axis and rewire spiral welded along the length.

    In this setup, they could feed the rebar, bend into shape, then cast the whole thing in place. It might make the most sense to do the inner tunnel seperate from the slurry fill due to material requirements and access. I'm not sure if the cure tine and process control lines up with tunneling speed goals. However, by gripping more cured segments further down the tunnel, they can trade mechanics for cure time.

    Continuous spiral welding of a tube in place is possible with the difficulty dependent on thickness and width. (Bend radius/ feed angle/ uncoiling). Curves would requires shaving or corrugating if doing edge welding. If doing overlap (telescoping) then that is easier. The shield can provide a gap for access to the back side of the weld. SpaceX uses friction stir welding which might be an option and works well with overlap.

    Possible hybrid approach is steel sections. The sections could be one piece of tunnel diameter size sent down the tunnel with the ends overlapping (so as to fit). The piece would then be threaded around the TBM push rods which engage with features on the previous segment. Once in place, the piece is expanded and welded to itself and the previous section. With these, they can pre cut the segments with a taper. That taper allows the tunnel to curve based on rotational orientation similar to HVAC ducting.

    They could feed and cut these sections in place. That eliminate the issue of rotating the feed material around the circumference since they can pull one or two wraps off at a time with a free end, versus a captive end and moving the coil.

    Steel tunnels of various designs are used in immersesed environments:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/concrete-tunnel
    Check out the Bai Yun paper.

    The outer concrete slurry would provide protection, and they can add a protective coating while the steel is still inside the shield.

    (Grain of salt, not a tunnel engineer)
     
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