Bouncy / Hobby Horse Ride

[Needsdecaf]

Today marks one week in my Model 3 and I've just gone over the 650 mile mark. Most things I love about it, a few things not as much. One thing is the damn rattle in my center console where the phone dock is. But that's another post.

For the most part, I feel like the Model 3 (mine is an AWD non-performance with 19's) has a good ride. I'm coming from a 2017 GTI and that car was on the stiffer side. I also have a 991 Generation 911 Carrera 2S so I am no stranger to stiff cars.
Overall, I feel like the Model 3 rides well but in certain circumstances, the car can get out of sorts with the road. It becomes bouncy and kind of hobby-horses back and forth fore to aft. In one circumstance, it got into a good enough rhythm where I could hear my laptop bag launching into the air in the trunk and landing with a thump! You can see this in some of my dashcam videos. Over certain roads, the frame will bounce up and down like I'm running holding a camcorder.

It's not AWFUL, but seems out of sorts. I did a search and saw one other post about a bouncy ride, but for the most part most people seem to like it. And I like it too, most of the time. I don't think it's too stiff, but it seems to pogo around at times.

Stock tires, running 38 PSI cold. It's been colder here the last few days, highs in the high 40's to low 50's. Could that be it?

I don't recall the M3 Performance loaner I had for a day doing this at all, and that was on 20's.

Any thoughts?

 

[Lifeinabox]

Don't have anything to add and look forward to other's opinions. I do find the P3D ride a little bouncy at times over repetitive uneven pavement but I'm coming from the tank like ride of an S with air. Don't have enough seat time to say that it's a problem.

 

[kbecks13]

What you're describing is related to suspension frequency and the difference between the front and rear suspension. Typically the rear suspension is a bit higher frequency (stiffer) compared to the front which gives a nice, smooth ride when going over bumps. Model 3 was tuned pretty well for this, so it's surprising that you are feeling it.

If you want to nerd out on this, here's more info: http://www.optimumg.com/docs/Springs&Dampers_Tech_Tip_1.pdf

Are your tire pressures even on front/rear?

 

[SMAlset]

Can't say we've experienced anything like that with our Model 3. Some of the highways out here are pretty rough too.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is 38 the recommended tire pressure for those 19s? On the performance model with the 20s, the recommended tire pressure is 42 (cold). The performance has a slightly lower suspension and different tires, so not apples to apples.. but I dont feel anything at all like you are describing.

Checking the manual, It looks like all 3 versions of the 19s that come with the car want more pressure than you are using. Tesla uses (what seems like to me anyway) really high tire pressures:
======================
Tires (front/rear) Size Tire
Pressure
Continental,
ProContact RX 235/40R19 42 PSI
(290 kPa)*

Hankook Ventus
S1 Evo3 235/40R19 42 PSI
(290 kPa)*

Pirelli Winter
Sottozero 3 235/40R19 42 PSI
(290 kPa)

*Increase the tire pressure to 44 PSI (300
kPa) prior to driving 134 mph (215 kph) or
faster.

==================

Try increasing your cold tire pressure to 42 and see if that helps.

 

[Needsdecaf]

I would think higher pressures would make it worse, not better. But wouldn’t hurt to try.

My pressures are currently even.

 

[kbecks13]

I would think higher pressures would make it worse, not better. But wouldn’t hurt to try.

It's not just the stiffness of the tires/springs, it's the stiffness of the front and rear relative to each other. If they are slightly off, you can sometimes get a weird effect where a bump causes the vehicle to pitch forward and backwards instead of staying flat and just moving upwards. It's a very noticeable feeling and seems to be what you're describing.

 

[SciFriGuy]

Yes. You are not imagining the bumpy ride. Very stiffly sprung. Feel every bottle cap in the road. Tried lower tire pressure to 38...not much help. But still love the way it drives...despite the vertebrae crunching ride.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I experienced the exact same effect Needsdecaf is describing when I rented a RWD M3 thru Turo back in May in LA.
So, I can say for sure it's nothing to do with low temperatures.

It was most obvious on certain sections of freeway when I would be driving at a steady 60-70mph. Those sections were undulating, so it seemed there was some sort of harmonic making it feel a lot worse than it should have been.

The solution I'm sure would be to modify spring rates and/or damper settings but assuming the standard M3 has no adjustment in these areas I guess if it's a real problem you'd need to look at aftermarket parts.

I was hoping the M3 would be coming out with an air suspension option, as I think that might also be an answer, but I've heard nothing on that myself.

I'm already looking at aftermarket suspension for my forthcoming M3 as I'll probably be wanting to change it if it's the same as the one I drove in LA.

 

[Lifeinabox]

I experienced the exact same effect Needsdecaf is describing when I rented a RWD M3 thru Turo back in May in LA.
So, I can say for sure it's nothing to do with low temperatures.

It was most obvious on certain sections of freeway when I would be driving at a steady 60-70mph. Those sections were undulating, so it seemed there was some sort of harmonic making it feel a lot worse than it should have been.

The solution I'm sure would be to modify spring rates and/or damper settings but assuming the standard M3 has no adjustment in these areas I guess if it's a real problem you'd need to look at aftermarket parts.

I was hoping the M3 would be coming out with an air suspension option, as I think that might also be an answer, but I've heard nothing on that myself.

I'm already looking at aftermarket suspension for my forthcoming M3 as I'll probably be wanting to change it if it's the same as the one I drove in LA.

Sounds like you live outside of LA. LA expansion joints are notorious for revealing the worst in suspensions and in cars that are perfectly fine on the street. I get similar harmonic bumpiness in my S. I’d focus on the roads where you live instead of the worst examples where you don’t live.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Sounds like you live outside of LA. LA expansion joints are notorious for revealing the worst in suspensions and in cars that are perfectly fine on the street. I get similar harmonic bumpiness in my S. I’d focus on the roads where you live instead of the worst examples where you don’t live.

You're correct in that I live outside LA but I've driven on it's freeways many times in many different cars and hadn't experienced it before. It's quite possible the Euro-spec M3s will have different suspension. I'll wait and see.

 

[Kevin_Freeman]

I have an October build AWD on stock 18s. Ride on local streets is awful. Suspension is wonderful for performance driving and soaking up larger bumps. But at 35mph driving over tiny cracks that I don't feel in my A6 2.7T with sport suspension, the 3 bounces like a tractor. Everything in the car bounces up and down, including passengers. This is my biggest complaint about the 3.

 

[kbecks13]

Yes. You are not imagining the bumpy ride. Very stiffly sprung. Feel every bottle cap in the road. Tried lower tire pressure to 38...not much help. But still love the way it drives...despite the vertebrae crunching ride.

I'm already looking at aftermarket suspension for my forthcoming M3 as I'll probably be wanting to change it if it's the same as the one I drove in LA.

So i had one of the original RWD cars with a very stiff suspension and now have a P3D+ with the less stiff suspension and wanted to report my experiences.

I just upgraded to a custom Unplugged Performance coilover set that i asked to be set-up with extra stiff springs for racing use. After ordering, i was going back and forth about being scared that the coilovers would be too harsh for daily driving - well i finally got them installed this past week and boy was i wrong!

The coilovers give an immediately noticeable difference in terms of handling where there is far less body roll and the car feels much more responsive and planted (it's really an amazing feeling). Where i was surprised is that when going over bumps the coilovers don't feel much more harsh than the stock ones, even with extra stiff set-up.

Long story short - what this tells me is that the OEM shock absorber can quickly turn harsh AND doesn't really have the spring rates (too soft) that many people want. I'm very curious to read more reviews of aftermarket coilovers as people start installing them, but i bet we're going to see some very happy customers and it's a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[gilscales]

Today marks one week in my Model 3 and I've just gone over the 650 mile mark. Most things I love about it, a few things not as much. One thing is the damn rattle in my center console where the phone dock is. But that's another post.

For the most part, I feel like the Model 3 (mine is an AWD non-performance with 19's) has a good ride. I'm coming from a 2017 GTI and that car was on the stiffer side. I also have a 991 Generation 911 Carrera 2S so I am no stranger to stiff cars.
Overall, I feel like the Model 3 rides well but in certain circumstances, the car can get out of sorts with the road. It becomes bouncy and kind of hobby-horses back and forth fore to aft. In one circumstance, it got into a good enough rhythm where I could hear my laptop bag launching into the air in the trunk and landing with a thump! You can see this in some of my dashcam videos. Over certain roads, the frame will bounce up and down like I'm running holding a camcorder.

It's not AWFUL, but seems out of sorts. I did a search and saw one other post about a bouncy ride, but for the most part most people seem to like it. And I like it too, most of the time. I don't think it's too stiff, but it seems to pogo around at times.

Stock tires, running 38 PSI cold. It's been colder here the last few days, highs in the high 40's to low 50's. Could that be it?

I don't recall the M3 Performance loaner I had for a day doing this at all, and that was on 20's.

Any thoughts?

I think this could possibly be related to the fact that the bump stops are coming into play in this situation and alternately compressing and releasing their energy so as to give this hobby horse action, I may be wrong as I’m certainly no expert and I did not even stay in a holiday in express last night so...? If I were you I would reach out to Sasha at mountain pass performance as he can offer you the best advice
Mountain Pass Performance

 

[Magnets!]

The hobby horse movement could be the result of a defective damper. Take a close peek for any fluid around each damper. Other brands have been known to accidentally leave shipping blocks in the springs after delivery (to prevent bottoming during shipping/transport) which can cause issues but I have no idea if Tesla even uses them.

I've never experienced what you are describing and feel that the suspension is phenomenal...better than any car I've ever owned. (10 BMWs and 1 Audi). Sandy Munro described the suspension with a lot of superlatives and even said that he didn't know who designed it but said that guy could work for F1 it's that good.

 

[jgrgnt]

I agree that the P3D suspension is too soft.

There's a freeway transition ramp (405N carpool to 55N) with a raised expansion joint in the middle of a curve. When I drive over it, the rear end compresses, hits the bump stops and bounces up, momentarily unsettling the rear end. It's far from dangerous, but it's definitely not a confidence-inspiring reaction. This happens, of course, on other roads in similar conditions. The demo P3D I drove felt identical.

My BMW 435i has adaptive dampers, and overall that suspension system is more buttoned-down than the one in the P3D. There is no bounciness or bucking. I drive both cars on the same roads and the difference is not insignificant. That same freeway transition ramp produces no drama in the BMW. That being said, there's more body roll in the BMW, and I can never seem to find the perfect setting (Comfort is Buick-soft, and Sport is just a tad too harsh on sharp bumps).

I think Tesla listened to the feedback about the early Model 3 suspensions being too stiff, then went too far into the opposite direction. Really would have preferred the Performance model to retain a stiffer setup.

 

[gilscales]

I agree that the P3D suspension is too soft.

There's a freeway transition ramp (405N carpool to 55N) with a raised expansion joint in the middle of a curve. When I drive over it, the rear end compresses, hits the bump stops and bounces up, momentarily unsettling the rear end. It's far from dangerous, but it's definitely not a confidence-inspiring reaction. This happens, of course, on other roads in similar conditions. The demo P3D I drove felt identical.

My BMW 435i has adaptive dampers, and overall that suspension system is more buttoned-down than the one in the P3D. There is no bounciness or bucking. I drive both cars on the same roads and the difference is not insignificant. That same freeway transition ramp produces no drama in the BMW. That being said, there's more body roll in the BMW, and I can never seem to find the perfect setting (Comfort is Buick-soft, and Sport is just a tad too harsh on sharp bumps).

I think Tesla listened to the feedback about the early Model 3 suspensions being too stiff, then went too far into the opposite direction. Really would have preferred the Performance model to retain a stiffer setup.

According to Sasha at Products | Mountain Pass Performance the stock dampers have a very small amount of travel before the bump stops engage but they are a progressive stop that is very soft in the beginning so even though they are engaging often it is only on larger suspension movement where they compress a bit that they are likely causing this problem, I notice it sometimes but for me 90% of the time the ride and handling are fine, I am watching for more reviews of MPP coilovers as they get installed in more cars, if enough people talk about improved ride comfort as well as handling it would be worth it to upgrade the stock suspension.

 

[Matt L]

Today marks one week in my Model 3 and I've just gone over the 650 mile mark. Most things I love about it, a few things not as much. One thing is the damn rattle in my center console where the phone dock is. But that's another post.

For the most part, I feel like the Model 3 (mine is an AWD non-performance with 19's) has a good ride. I'm coming from a 2017 GTI and that car was on the stiffer side. I also have a 991 Generation 911 Carrera 2S so I am no stranger to stiff cars.
Overall, I feel like the Model 3 rides well but in certain circumstances, the car can get out of sorts with the road. It becomes bouncy and kind of hobby-horses back and forth fore to aft. In one circumstance, it got into a good enough rhythm where I could hear my laptop bag launching into the air in the trunk and landing with a thump! You can see this in some of my dashcam videos. Over certain roads, the frame will bounce up and down like I'm running holding a camcorder.

It's not AWFUL, but seems out of sorts. I did a search and saw one other post about a bouncy ride, but for the most part most people seem to like it. And I like it too, most of the time. I don't think it's too stiff, but it seems to pogo around at times.

Stock tires, running 38 PSI cold. It's been colder here the last few days, highs in the high 40's to low 50's. Could that be it?

I don't recall the M3 Performance loaner I had for a day doing this at all, and that was on 20's.

Any thoughts?

19”? You should be running closer to 45 PSI

 

[kbecks13]

I am watching for more reviews of MPP coilovers as they get installed in more cars, if enough people talk about improved ride comfort as well as handling it would be worth it to upgrade the stock suspension.

I didn't get MPP, but this is exactly what happens with aftermarket coilovers in my experience so far. You can actually get the best of both worlds it seems.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

If the travel in the rear dampers is small then what I felt in that early RWD M3 could definitely have been the bump stops in compression.

I've read a few more threads here now which talk about the differences between early and late M3s and RWD and AWD.
It's also clear that improvements are being made all the time to M3 components.

We've also got to bear in mind that suspension and ride quality assessment can be quite subjective.
I say "firm", you say "uncomfortable".
I say "wallowy", you say "great over bumps".
I say "handles like a cow on roller skates" you say "drives like a Cadillac".

Ultimately, the M3 is built to a price, so the OEM suspension components are going to be a compromise between cost and performance.
The same thing has happened with most car manufacturers in recent years. I had to upgrade a 911 C2 from standard to sports suspension when I got it because it was just too 'safe' and slow with the standard setup. I've now got a relatively new BMW and have replaced the OEM suspension on that to make it handle and ride as it really should.

There's no doubt in my mind the M3's ride and handling can be be improved from the factory setup. If you spend enough time and money, that is the case for almost any car made, but each individual driver's expectations are going to vary and for some the factory set up will be just fine for the driving they're doing.