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Brake and Roll test
- Thread starter Barklikeadog
- Start date
To me, the fact that the test was dropped during the final day of a highly publicized end-of-month production rush tends to imply that this was dropped not because of some long-planned change in the production process, but as a quickie decision about how to get product out the factory door quickly on that specific day.
That's not a good way to make changes to QA processes.
My understanding is that this is a test that uses specialized equipment. The fact that Tesla test drives every car on the track is not necessarily a substitute for such specialized testing. A track test will notice gross errors in construction/tuning/alignment/etc, but is not really a substitute for a more exacting mechanical measurement.
That's not a good way to make changes to QA processes.
My understanding is that this is a test that uses specialized equipment. The fact that Tesla test drives every car on the track is not necessarily a substitute for such specialized testing. A track test will notice gross errors in construction/tuning/alignment/etc, but is not really a substitute for a more exacting mechanical measurement.
It seems to me that with today’s journalistic standard, someone with average intelligence should know by now to actually read and question ‘the story’ instead of simply reading the headline and taking its click bait intro as gospel. Any article with ‘experts say’ or a ‘source tells us’ without naming them is suspect. How many people actually know why Apple slowed older phones? Not many I’ll bet. It’s easier to read a headline and trash the company.
If this test was so vital, the CEOs of other automakers would take a room service opportunity to trash Tesla and put their name to it. Think they’d speak up if Tesla said we don’t test seatbelts anymore cause none have failed? You bet your ass they would. By name. How many other manufacturers have a test track that every vehicle is run through? Personally I’d rather have that test knowing MY car was put through it’s paces.
Maybe someone said ‘hey I just drove these 20 cars around the track like I stole them, do we really need this sanitized controlled test?’
What I do know is that articles from business insider set off a wave of ‘scalping’ news that other outlets put out. Next thing you know your buddy says ‘hey Tesla ain’t testing brakes no more’. It’s done purposely and with unnamed sources. Why? The answer is the magic of the unsophisticated mind. Tesla as we all know or should, is one of the most if not the most shorted stock in the US. The articles are all over the place about how many billions stand to be lost on Tesla’s success. The one saying ‘hey what ya think about the brake test being eliminated?’ seems to forget that those unnamed sources and the articles that flows from them make short sellers, in this case a lot of money. Check the stock today. The best example I can think of are the constant ‘insider’ reports of Apple cutting iPhone production yet they routinely meet or beat expectations. Short term though, with the reactions to the ‘news’ the stock depresses.
If this is a real issue, others will chime in with their name on the line. Musk would likely also say something like he did with CR and the braking distance. Legitimate claims treated seriously and addressed.
People should learn the markets and learn how they are influenced and just how much money is at stake. You want to talk about screwing the little guy? Own a stock in any company WS has its sights on and you’ll see a constant up and down pattern that’ll make you want to puke. The retail investor is the little guy. Major investing firms and houses buy and hold.
Anyway, Tesla is a company they love to screw with right now. Why do you think they get ink on things no other automaker does (fires, accidents)? Big oil needs them to fail. Shorts need them to also.
Elon does make them an easy target though. I wish he’d shut the foxtrot up quite often.
If this test was so vital, the CEOs of other automakers would take a room service opportunity to trash Tesla and put their name to it. Think they’d speak up if Tesla said we don’t test seatbelts anymore cause none have failed? You bet your ass they would. By name. How many other manufacturers have a test track that every vehicle is run through? Personally I’d rather have that test knowing MY car was put through it’s paces.
Maybe someone said ‘hey I just drove these 20 cars around the track like I stole them, do we really need this sanitized controlled test?’
What I do know is that articles from business insider set off a wave of ‘scalping’ news that other outlets put out. Next thing you know your buddy says ‘hey Tesla ain’t testing brakes no more’. It’s done purposely and with unnamed sources. Why? The answer is the magic of the unsophisticated mind. Tesla as we all know or should, is one of the most if not the most shorted stock in the US. The articles are all over the place about how many billions stand to be lost on Tesla’s success. The one saying ‘hey what ya think about the brake test being eliminated?’ seems to forget that those unnamed sources and the articles that flows from them make short sellers, in this case a lot of money. Check the stock today. The best example I can think of are the constant ‘insider’ reports of Apple cutting iPhone production yet they routinely meet or beat expectations. Short term though, with the reactions to the ‘news’ the stock depresses.
If this is a real issue, others will chime in with their name on the line. Musk would likely also say something like he did with CR and the braking distance. Legitimate claims treated seriously and addressed.
People should learn the markets and learn how they are influenced and just how much money is at stake. You want to talk about screwing the little guy? Own a stock in any company WS has its sights on and you’ll see a constant up and down pattern that’ll make you want to puke. The retail investor is the little guy. Major investing firms and houses buy and hold.
Anyway, Tesla is a company they love to screw with right now. Why do you think they get ink on things no other automaker does (fires, accidents)? Big oil needs them to fail. Shorts need them to also.
Elon does make them an easy target though. I wish he’d shut the foxtrot up quite often.
Actually they did name and talk to a representative from Tesla who didn't deny the premise of their article.
How is it out of the question to ask the opinions of owners or future owners? These are questions that stockholders will be asking Elon Musk about. Owners of the company
(yes you don't have to own a car to own part of the company) want to know about the all important production rate and if it is sustainable. There are thousands of Tesla hit-pieces
all predicting disaster, bankruptcy, etc. This is not one of them. Tesla reps tend not to respond/interview for the attack pieces.
TT97
Active Member
The fire risk is worth it for that sweet paint scheme!
I’m talking about the source of the doom and gloom being named. The person from Tesla said non issue.
Where is someone with no axe to grind and some credibility saying ‘they did what???!!!! That test is vital because of A, B and C.’
No where.
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Tesla did comment, which is why I said the story had some substance and was worth discussing.
Did you read the story?
And what did they say?
Someone from Tesla was the only one with the stones to put their name to a claim. If that doesn’t mean anything to you, it should.
How come we never hear internal QA issues from all the other manufacturers? When Tesla changes it's processes, it makes headlines. While I'm skeptical about a lot that Tesla does simply because there are quite a few fit and finish complaints, I also see that there are a lot of eyeballs on anything and everything at Tesla.
So while I might be canceling my SR AWD M3 order sometime soon, it's only because I'm not impressed by the back seats. But stop hating the company. It's going to be the end of the German luxury brands soon.
So while I might be canceling my SR AWD M3 order sometime soon, it's only because I'm not impressed by the back seats. But stop hating the company. It's going to be the end of the German luxury brands soon.
hacer
Active Member
It seems Toyota tests brake and roll in the factory instead of doing track testing. http://www.foriauto.com/Portals/0/Images/End of Line.pdf
It certainly seems to be redundant to do both.
The eyeballs are there because the CEO is waving his arms yelling 'LOOK AT ME' 24/7/365.
And who said I hate the company? Ive made some money off the stock over the years, it is an American company (I buy USA or Euro whenever possible) I would like to get a Tesla truck,
and Tesla is interesting to follow. I make posts critical of Elon Musk and broken promises because I -don't- want Tesla to get sued constantly. For example the FSD thing. He is selling
a product that doesn't exist. They post videos of cars driving (hands off) and then go after owners who drive around(hands off) and die. Yea those drivers were in most cases idiots, but
it isn't necessary for Tesla to drag them through the mud and report that they had a hand/wheel warning 15 mins before the crash. That is just wrong.
Musk demands to be in the spotlight but doesn't like the spotlight if it is critical. Well you can't have it both ways. Tesla could be just as successful -and- eliminate some scrutiny if Musk drops the PT Barnum act.
Unfortunately this generation has determined that all criticism is bad, all criticism is an attack. Everyone is offended. We used to have this thing called constructive criticism.
Actually I think it’s more that others don’t see it as a legitimate article like you do. I myself have explained why I think that way.
Again, would you please name one person with intimate knowledge of the process at Tesla criticizing and putting their name to it?
Anyone from the major manufacturers on the news saying ‘wow, just wow. This is dangerous and the NTSB should step in’?
Where are the documents that were ‘viewed’ by business insider?
That’s why we think it’s more anti Tesla schtick. They got you though.
Again, would you please name one person with intimate knowledge of the process at Tesla criticizing and putting their name to it?
Anyone from the major manufacturers on the news saying ‘wow, just wow. This is dangerous and the NTSB should step in’?
Where are the documents that were ‘viewed’ by business insider?
That’s why we think it’s more anti Tesla schtick. They got you though.
BozieBeMe2
May I have this dance?
Where is that story?
Where is a link to that story?
If you are going to bark like a dog, let's hear that story or otherwise, your comments are hearsey.
For those that are curious. Here's a Tesla on a roll brake machine:
If Tesla is doing true track testing, as in collecting data under various conditions, then that may be redundant. Track testing is not just driving around a bit on the way to the outbound logistics lot to park the car for pickup.
Hopefully they are capturing and adjusting things from a roll & brake test (or true track test) such as:
If Tesla is doing true track testing, as in collecting data under various conditions, then that may be redundant. Track testing is not just driving around a bit on the way to the outbound logistics lot to park the car for pickup.
Hopefully they are capturing and adjusting things from a roll & brake test (or true track test) such as:
- High-speed system function
- Standard brake drag force and brake force
- Parking brake force
- ABS system function & control unit communication
- Stability control
- NVH
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This year has been entertaining as hell. I find it very good to see Tesla will do whatever it takes to fight through production challenges with Model 3. Keep it up Tesla. I'm looking forward to air suspension and model Y design, version 9.0.
From the Business Insider article:
"Ron Harbour, a consultant at Oliver Wyman who founded and writes "The Harbour Report," a worldwide guide to manufacturing, told Business Insider that after everything is installed in a car during the manufacturing process, a manufacturer would have to be very lucky for everything on a car to be in alignment.
If you just abandon [the test], you could potentially have a lot of quality issues with your customers," he said. "Every plant does that ... It's part of finishing the build of the car."
Harbour told Business Insider he was unaware of any test that could adequately replace the brake-and-roll test on a manufacturing line."
I guess the next line of argument will be that this guy must be a shill for Big Oil or the Big Three, eh?
From the Business Insider article:
"Ron Harbour, a consultant at Oliver Wyman who founded and writes "The Harbour Report," a worldwide guide to manufacturing, told Business Insider that after everything is installed in a car during the manufacturing process, a manufacturer would have to be very lucky for everything on a car to be in alignment.
If you just abandon [the test], you could potentially have a lot of quality issues with your customers," he said. "Every plant does that ... It's part of finishing the build of the car."
Harbour told Business Insider he was unaware of any test that could adequately replace the brake-and-roll test on a manufacturing line."
I guess the next line of argument will be that this guy must be a shill for Big Oil or the Big Three, eh?
How did you rule out he isn’t a shill for the Big 3?
Also, it’s impossible for Musk’s teams to do difficult things. ^^^^^
Yes, but then, consider that in the "road test" that tesla make, they have the correct software to get a lot of info, where other manufacturer doesn't have all this info or doesn't care to get all this info from the car after a lap ( since they have to re-connect the car or build a diagnostico software used only for testing ) and they prefer to use external tooling for some check, it's fine, just consider that Tesla does a lot more in the test lap, and it may be the case that they really doesn't need it since they can get the same result with the lap or with other test done before, again, we don't know what other step they take before that can make irrilevant the brake & roll test, the news is "they don't do this", but of course there is no news like "they do this that other don't do".
I'm not sayng that "this is the case", but until problem arise or similar you have to trust the automaker and in this because we don't know the fact, and the most important things is: neither the "experts".
It's like if you ask me, as an expert developer "they don't sanitize theyr input, it's safe?" i would say "it's a bad things", but if the developer writing the code say "we do this in another part of the code" who has the right of it? me? i've only just said that, since you asked me a single question i've replyed correctly, but my reply is irrelevant if the other developer has done it right, just in another way that of course i don't know.
