Brake disc specs?

[smac]

The link shows 4 lug and 288mm- so no. Maybe the Europa had 5 lugs for some model?

I think that's a listing error on that site. I was more intrigued by the grooving pattern of the M-Tech's.

VX220 and Europa are both 5 lugs. (Hence why a lot of times you get to choose on Eliseparts between cars it often says Elise S2 or VX220/Europa)

 

[smac]

The V6 Exige rotors are 332mm x 32mm, so they will not work either.

Agree, and this is down to the increased wheel size.

The big plus to the V6 Exige (my current car) is tire selection. Yes the brakes are significantly better in terms of fade resistance on track, but the Pirrelli Corsa's that came standard fit on mine are decades ahead of the Yokohama's on my old Exige S2 in every way. I'm due another tire change and I'm thinking of giving the Cup Sports (as fitted to the very latest cars) a go.

I have no idea if there is clearance to fit the Exige's R17 / R18 wheels on a Roadster..... My guess is no.

 

[Moge]

I have to say that I'm a bit confused as I'm getting so many contradictory answers, but as far as I understand the discs and rotors for the Elise are bolt on but have the wrong diameter. The Roadster has 296mm in the front and 308mm in the rear.

Can anyone confirm this?

Eliseparts.com are working with me to find the correct setup and emailed me this on Monday:

Hi Esben

Thanks for sending me the thread. (I sent him the link to this forum)

It looks to me as though parts we make for the Europa and the VX220 will work on the Tesla Roadster.

One comment made was on improving fronts rears will also require improvement and I agree.

I am happy to work with you and can supply all the parts required to improve your braking but I would like you to send me some pictures 1st of some areas of your Tesla so I can advise.

1/. Pictures of your present front and rear brakes ideally with the wheel OFF, to show the rotor and calipers.

2/. Picture of your brake MASTER cylinder.

3/. Picture of one of your REAR uprights

This will help me select options for you.

What I will also do is to sell you the parts on a sale or return basis i.e. if they don’t fit perfectly I will rectify at my cost or refund
​

Does any of you have these pictures available?

 

[ML Auto]

The Elise uses 4 lug 288mm rotors, so they will not fit (the hub dia. is also smaller). The front spindles, rear calipers and master cylinder are the same as the Lotus. The front calipers are slightly different, with a taller mounting boss to space the them out for the larger rotors. The rear spindles (uprights) almost identical, except the caliper mounting holes are drilled further outward for the larger rotors. The Tesla uses 300mm front and 310mm rear rotors, both 26mm thick.

As I stated, the VX220 rotors are a bolt-on, you just need to get the correct diameter to match the caliper spacing.

The only reason not to use the EBC USR1070 rotors (or equivalent, as they also make cheap imported ones) both front and rear would be if you wanted to have 2 piece rotors, or to further increase the rotor size. The 308mm of the EBC ones work perfect in the rear, as the rear pads are "down" from the outer edge of the stock 310mm, and ride right up to the edge of the 308mm ones. With a simple 4mm spacer under the bolts in the front (which Elise Parts sells) the front are a bolt on as well. If you still wanted the stock 300mm in front, any auto shop with a brake lathe could trim 4mm from the outer edge for a few bucks. But the larger diameter improves braking.

The only way to correct the terrible braking of the roadster is to install bigger brakes in the rear. Other than the pads, spending big money trying to improve braking while keeping the stock specs of the calipers and rotors is a waste.

 

[Moge]

The Elise uses 4 lug 288mm rotors, so they will not fit (the hub dia. is also smaller). The front spindles, rear calipers and master cylinder are the same as the Lotus. The front calipers are slightly different, with a taller mounting boss to space the them out for the larger rotors. The rear spindles (uprights) almost identical, except the caliper mounting holes are drilled further outward for the larger rotors. The Tesla uses 300mm front and 310mm rear rotors, both 26mm thick.

As I stated, the VX220 rotors are a bolt-on, you just need to get the correct diameter to match the caliper spacing.

The only reason not to use the EBC USR1070 rotors (or equivalent, as they also make cheap imported ones) both front and rear would be if you wanted to have 2 piece rotors, or to further increase the rotor size. The 308mm of the EBC ones work perfect in the rear, as the rear pads are "down" from the outer edge of the stock 310mm, and ride right up to the edge of the 308mm ones. With a simple 4mm spacer under the bolts in the front (which Elise Parts sells) the front are a bolt on as well. If you still wanted the stock 300mm in front, any auto shop with a brake lathe could trim 4mm from the outer edge for a few bucks. But the larger diameter improves braking.

The only way to correct the terrible braking of the roadster is to install bigger brakes in the rear. Other than the pads, spending big money trying to improve braking while keeping the stock specs of the calipers and rotors is a waste.

Thanks MLAuto

 

[hcsharp]

...The only way to correct the terrible braking of the roadster is to install bigger brakes in the rear. Other than the pads, spending big money trying to improve braking while keeping the stock specs of the calipers and rotors is a waste.

It's interesting you say that. While going to a larger dia in the rear makes sense, I was able to improve braking substantially with @titaniumdave 's two-piece rotors which maintain the original diameters. They also save a lot of weight and almost eliminate rust.

 

[ML Auto]

It's interesting you say that. While going to a larger dia in the rear makes sense, I was able to improve braking substantially with @titaniumdave 's two-piece rotors which maintain the original diameters. They also save a lot of weight and almost eliminate rust.

I would assume that you changed the pads when you did that, as that is the biggest problem. The OEM pads only work good when they get hot, which rarely happens in the roadster. They get contaminated with rust and lose a lot of their braking friction. The slotted rotors eliminate that (no matter who makes them). The few pounds you save from those expensive two-piece ones may help you stop shorter by an inch or two, but nothing you can consistently measure. I cut the stopping distance over two car lengths from 60 MPH when I went to 4 piston calipers in the rear.

If you have any doubts as to the weakness of the rear brakes, just yank the parking brake in an empty lot any try to do a 180' spin. While almost every car out there can lock up the rear wheels, it is near impossible to do with the factory setup in the Roadster (I still can't either, since I retain the stock calipers for the parking brake).

 

[X.l.r.8]

Be fair, most other cars have a shoe inside the hub for the parking brake, that’s never going to be able to compete with a hydraulic piston, otherwise we would be driving brakes from Austin 7’s

 

[ML Auto]

Be fair, most other cars have a shoe inside the hub for the parking brake, that’s never going to be able to compete with a hydraulic piston, otherwise we would be driving brakes from Austin 7’s

The Roadster uses a cable attached to the rear caliper, which applies mechanical pressure to the rear pads-bypassing the hydraulics, but still using the same pads and rotor to slow the wheel. But the extra weight in the rear from the battery requires a lot more braking ability than can be supplied by the stock setup. Even in the Lotus with 1000 lbs less weight the rear brakes are marginal. In the Tesla they wear out three times faster than the front, which shows you how undersized they are.

 

[smac]

@MLAUTO are they the same rear calipers as on the Elise then?

If so maybe this could be of interest:
Brembo Caliper - TechWiki

 

[Moge]

Going through numerous threads here at the TMC and with the amazing insight of @MLAUTO, I've opted for VX220 308mm 2-piece rotors from Eliseparts.com front and rear, w/4mm spacers, and then get another set of stock front calipers for the rear with the Rear Radial Caliper Brackets (Elise S2, Exige S2, 2-Eleven, VX220) [2PRBS2] - €191.35 : Elise Shop, Performance parts for your Lotus Elise and keep the old caliper in the rear for the hand brake. Anything else I need to look out for?

As I won't take the car on the track, Eliseparts adviced me to go for the Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Pads - Brembo HP Sport Brake Pads I was planning to get the Greenstuff, but this might be a better option?

 

[ML Auto]

Going through numerous threads here at the TMC and with the amazing insight of @MLAUTO, I've opted for VX220 308mm 2-piece rotors from Eliseparts.com front and rear, w/4mm spacers, and then get another set of stock front calipers for the rear with the Rear Radial Caliper Brackets (Elise S2, Exige S2, 2-Eleven, VX220) [2PRBS2] - €191.35 : Elise Shop, Performance parts for your Lotus Elise and keep the old caliper in the rear for the hand brake. Anything else I need to look out for?

As I won't take the car on the track, Eliseparts adviced me to go for the Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Pads - Brembo HP Sport Brake Pads I was planning to get the Greenstuff, but this might be a better option?

Those rear brackets also require 10mm spacers, as they are for 288mm rotors. You may also need longer bolts.

I would go with the Yellowstuff pads over the green, they are a much better pad with similar cold friction specs.

 

[ML Auto]

@MLAUTO are they the same rear calipers as on the Elise then?

If so maybe this could be of interest:
Brembo Caliper - TechWiki

The calipers are the same as the Lotus. Upgrading the piston size in the existing caliper helps, but is still not nearly enough, and is a lot of work. It is easier to use the front calipers on the rear with the available adapter brackets, which works pretty good in the Lotus. But with 1000 lbs extra weight (most of it on the rear wheels), that setup still is not sufficient.

 

[Moge]

Seems like www.EliseParts.com will supply all I need and Brake Caliper Refurbishment homepage will take care of my old stock AP Racing 2 pot calipers. I got hold of a second set of stock front calipers which i will use in the rear with the Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Calipers - Rear Radial Caliper Mounts
I still haven't decided if I'm going to get the quite expensive 2 piece 308mm rotors:
Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Discs - EP Racing VX220 308mm Discs & Bells
or the Ultimax at a more reasonable price:
Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Discs - VX220/Europa 308mm Ultimax Discs

And brake pads from EBC Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Pads - EBC Yellowstuff Brake Pads

I'll be using 4mm spacers in the front and 10mm in the rear.

The only slight concern Elise Parts had that If you use the same 2-pots all-round it will transfer too much bias to the rear. They suggested the Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Calipers - AP Twin Pot Calipers which have slightly smaller pistons (41.3mm) than the standard 2-pot fronts (44.5mm) which will help to maintain the brake balance. Any thoughts @MLAUTO?

 

[ML Auto]

If you use stock Tesla calipers in the rear, you will need 4mm spacers, as they already have a longer standoff for 300mm rotors. Stock Lotus ones take the 10mm.

You want to increase the braking in the rear as much as you can, so stick with the bigger piston size.

Personally I wouldn't spend money on the 2 piece rotors, you won't notice any braking difference. They do look nice, but the factory calipers don't match that performance look. I've never been able to feel any ride difference by having a few pounds less in unsprung weight, but on the track, every little bit helps.

 

[Moge]

Thanks everybody for your guidance and advice!

Order placed with Eliseparts.com today:
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Discs - VX220/Europa 308mm Ultimax Discs
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Pads - EBC Yellowstuff Brake Pads
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Misc. - Front Caliper Spacers
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Misc. - AP Caliper Bolts
1 set of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Calipers - Rear Radial Caliper Mounts

Total invoice just over £700 ex VAT

 

[ICON]

Thanks everybody for your guidance and advice!

Order placed with Eliseparts.com today:
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Discs - VX220/Europa 308mm Ultimax Discs
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Pads - EBC Yellowstuff Brake Pads
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Misc. - Front Caliper Spacers
2 sets of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Misc. - AP Caliper Bolts
1 set of Elise Parts - Braking Systems - Brake Calipers - Rear Radial Caliper Mounts

Total invoice just over £700 ex VAT

Let us know how the installation goes...thanks - if you're doing it yourself and try to take some pics of the procedure...Thanks very much indeed!

 

[titaniumdave]

Hope your brakes work out. The coating used as stated on the website 'black plated preventing corrosion on the unswept areas' does not prevent rust in the area where the pad makes contact. You will have the same issues with rust build up and the problem with the pad not being able to grip on the oxide, creating longer stopping distances. The 'Blacktride' coating we use penetrates the surface of the rotor and continues to prevent rust even after the surface has started to show wear. Lighter rotors always reduce stopping distance, less mass requires less energy to stop, it's just physics. We have had great luck and lots of happy drivers using the CRF 2 piece rotor and are in the process getting another order together. We did the first set over 3 years ago and have 100 cars in service.

See: Custom Tesla Roadster 2-Piece Slotted Rotors, NEW batch for 2019

 

[titaniumdave]

I would assume that you changed the pads when you did that, as that is the biggest problem. The OEM pads only work good when they get hot, which rarely happens in the roadster. They get contaminated with rust and lose a lot of their braking friction. The slotted rotors eliminate that (no matter who makes them). The few pounds you save from those expensive two-piece ones may help you stop shorter by an inch or two, but nothing you can consistently measure. I cut the stopping distance over two car lengths from 60 MPH when I went to 4 piston calipers in the rear.

If you have any doubts as to the weakness of the rear brakes, just yank the parking brake in an empty lot any try to do a 180' spin. While almost every car out there can lock up the rear wheels, it is near impossible to do with the factory setup in the Roadster (I still can't either, since I retain the stock calipers for the parking brake).

The issue with you 'e-brake turn' not working is mostly using the cable/screw actuation of the caliper rather than the hydraulic system. My Elise won't do it either... The drivers who have my rotors and pad set all have found reduced stopping distance as well as more immediate braking. The issue is not rust in the pad, as stated. The issue is the coefficient of friction for any brake pad being lower for iron oxide(rust) than on cast iron. The rust needs to wear off before the pad can grip the cast iron and function as designed. The reduced stopping distance can mostly attributed to the treatment on the cast iron CRF uses to prevent rusting. Upgraded pads help, lower rotor weigh helps, slotted rotors help and all together everything works as a set to make a noticeable difference and improvement in safety.

 

[titaniumdave]

'Even in the Lotus with 1000 lbs less weight the rear brakes are marginal. In the Tesla they wear out three times faster than the front, which shows you how undersized they are.'

If the pads wear at 3 times the rate, this means the rear brakes are already biased to do more braking since the pads have only a slightly smaller area. You might check with your brake engineer about your concepts.

All the parts CRF has developed have been with the input of professionals, mostly from the racing world, either caliper/rotor specialists or pad compound experts. I trust you are using similar resources.