Brake failed and almost crashed

[CyberGus]

Take a steel tube like the brake line, and slowly rub a steel rod over it. How long before you get though?

This brake line must have been misaligned for a very long time.

 

[Dolemite]

Well, looks like the OPs damage was here...

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My I-have-no-other-information-to-go-on-therefore-I'm-not-an-expert-in-the-situation-so-take-the-following-information-with-a-grain-of-salt guess? The brake line wasn't clipped to the upper plastic piece and was somehow bent in the direction of the steering shaft. Could be during assembly. Could be post delivery repair. Could be post accident repair. Could be...

View attachment 687516

Checked mine, brake line is clear. Thanks Op for the update and picture. Only difference I see in others pics is (what I think is a grey dust boot) that has slipped down the steering shaft a bit. Black306 it looks like I can see the grey boot in your first pic all the way to the right (in the pic), further down than mine is. It slides easily so I'm going to try and slide it back up into place. Better said than done tho, its tight in there...
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Good info - I just want to clarify that the plastic clip that @pl8dlikafiddle & I are referring to is the "first one" that's holding 4 pipes together:

And not the deeper one that @Black306 is pointing out here:

I wasn't able to get to that one, either, since I'm garage-less for the time being and lifting the car is a PITA. I may give it another shot tomorrow, from above, now that I know what it looks like in there. It *may* be that this one has a higher potential to cause problems. Did you guys get a feel for how rigid this pipe is & how much work that particular plastic clip is *actually* doing?

 

[Black306]

Good info - I just want to clarify that the plastic clip that @pl8dlikafiddle & I are referring to is the "first one" that's holding 4 pipes together:

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And not the deeper one that @Black306 is pointing out here:

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I wasn't able to get to that one, either, since I'm garage-less for the time being and lifting the car is a PITA. I may give it another shot tomorrow, from above, now that I know what it looks like in there. It *may* be that this one has a higher potential to cause problems. Did you guys get a feel for how rigid this pipe is & how much work that particular plastic clip is *actually* doing?

Didn’t bother checking how rigid the line was. More interested about how far the lines were from the shaft. (I could get my fingers between them with little difficulty.)

 

[john5520]

Big thank you Junos12 for posting this incident, and the others who posted pics of their inspections. After seeing black306's pics, I'm not worried about this being widespread. I may check it at some point, but I believe this was a very rare situation. However, it's likely Tesla would still look into it to see if there are assembly processes etc that may have affected other cars, or if other improvements are needed.

 

[WhiteWi]

Didn’t OP said his car is less than a year old? How is this damage possible in such a short time?

 

[qdeathstar]

Didn’t OP said his car is less than a year old? How is this damage possible in such a short time?

Dunno, but it is a bit terrifying that a small nick can cause a catastrophic failure in the breaking system. I bet in a Normal car, op would have got this sooner though because it is a pin hole, small leak, but with the Tesla maybe less noticeable until you really need the brakes since you are mainly using regen.

Maybe Tesla should code into its system to automatically use the real breaks instead of regen every certain interval....

 

[dmurphy]

Dunno, but it is a bit terrifying that a small nick can cause a catastrophic failure in the breaking system. I bet in a Normal car, op would have got this sooner though because it is a pin hole, small leak, but with the Tesla maybe less noticeable until you really need the brakes since you are mainly using regen.

Maybe Tesla should code into its system to automatically use the real breaks instead of regen every certain interval....

The car *always* uses the hydraulic brakes. Even if it’s lightly, it’s still used. Every time you see ((H)) on the display, the hydraulic brakes are clamped.

This is genuinely no different than an ICE car. A failed master cylinder, or line in/out, can cause the same failure.

 

[M109Rider]

Didn’t OP said his car is less than a year old? How is this damage possible in such a short time?

If you read the posts, you’ll see how it occurred, and why it failed about now.

We don’t know why the line was in that position for the damage to occur though.
Could be many reasons for that.

Since it’s the only known instance of this that I’ve seen posted, I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s not even close to a wide spread problem. That makes it interesting, but not something the Tesla haters would even have much success with, trying to create an alarmist bit to imply there is a Tesla brake line problem.

But comments like “How does this happen in such a new car, “ is a good start.

 

[junos12]

Haven’t received more pictures yet but I noticed something interesting while driving a loaner model 3.

Whenever I turned steering wheel on my model 3, it always made sound and I thought that was normal but this loaner model 3 doesn’t make any sound. Maybe my brake line was touching the steering shaft and I kept rubbing it every time I steered?

And thank you everyone for the kind words and also the pictures, that was really helpful.

 

[qdeathstar]

If you read the posts, you’ll see how it occurred, and why it failed about now.

We don’t know why the line was in that position for the damage to occur though.
Could be many reasons for that.

Since it’s the only known instance of this that I’ve seen posted, I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s not even close to a wide spread problem. That makes it interesting, but not something the Tesla haters would even have much success with, trying to create an alarmist bit to imply there is a Tesla brake line problem.

But comments like “How does this happen in such a new car, “ is a good start.

I hear what you are saying but you might not notice bad/week brakes when it is hold.

 

[john5520]

Haven’t received more pictures yet but I noticed something interesting while driving a loaner model 3.

Whenever I turned steering wheel on my model 3, it always made sound and I thought that was normal but this loaner model 3 doesn’t make any sound. Maybe my brake line was touching the steering shaft and I kept rubbing it every time I steered?

And thank you everyone for the kind words and also the pictures, that was really helpful.

This answers a question I wanted to ask. I figured a line touching the column might generate a sound or some kind of feedback. Seems very plausible that you were able to hear it.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Haven’t received more pictures yet but I noticed something interesting while driving a loaner model 3.

Whenever I turned steering wheel on my model 3, it always made sound and I thought that was normal but this loaner model 3 doesn’t make any sound. Maybe my brake line was touching the steering shaft and I kept rubbing it every time I steered?

And thank you everyone for the kind words and also the pictures, that was really helpful.

If the car has made that sound since you purchased it, that's fairly solid evidence that this is a manufacturing defect. The brake line simply wasn't installed properly and/or wasn't placed into the clips properly and has been rubbing on the steering column rod since it was built.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm very skeptical that you could hear or feel the brake line rubbing there.
Anyway, I checked mine and it's fine. Hopefully this is just a one-off defect.

 

[Matias]

Keep in mind this is literally a one-in-a-million failure. Recalls are triggered when there are hundreds or thousands of failures per million car. Tesla will surely investigate this at the factory and may add an assembly step to check this or even update the clip if necessary.

I'd bet that someone yanked on that brake line, not only pulling it out of the clip but also bending it so severely that it was left with residual force pressing it against the steering column. Likely not a manufacturing defect so to speak.

2015 Tesla issued a voluntary recall because they found one seat belt in one car to be improperly connected.

Model S Seat Belt Inspection | Tesla Support

In 2015, Tesla found a Model S in Europe with a front seat belt that was not properly connected to the outboard lap pretensioner. This vehicle was not involved in a crash and there were no injuries. Learn more about Tesla's voluntary recall.

www.tesla.com

 

[pnwadventures]

Anyway, I checked mine and it's fine. Hopefully this is just a one-off defect.

Those of you checking yours: what is the approach you’re using, and how long does it take you?

 

[Black306]

Those of you checking yours: what is the approach you’re using, and how long does it take you?

I have ramps that are normally used to get my Cobra on its “pedestal.” A jack and a jack stand would work.

There is a gap on the driver’s side between the front belly pan and frame. (normally for control arms, front half shafts, etc.) Once under the car, it’s pretty easy to see the gap and see the hard lines/steering shaft. Once you see the hard lines, just reach up in the gap and feel for clearance between the two.

Takes longer to jack up and secure the car than to check for a gap.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Those of you checking yours: what is the approach you’re using, and how long does it take you?

I took off frunk cover. Takes about ten minutes but I’ve done it before.

 

[Rmchrger]

I took the frunk tub out. From there, you can clearly see the steering shaft u joint. Follow and feel the steering shaft back and see if the brake line is rubbing. The brake line of concern is on the outboard side (I believe). Flashlight, cell phone camera got some of my pics. I used a usb endoscope for views and pictures of the outboard side of the shaft that shows the clearance between the brake line. Jacking the car up will get you a different view from underneath especially if you take off the plastic aero shield. Just depends on your preference and if your able to easily jack the car up or take the frunk tub out. Either way should work for inspection purposes.
Pl8dlikefiddle on post 106 on page 9 has great pictures from the frunk side.

 

[M109Rider]

I hear what you are saying but you might not notice bad/week brakes when it is hold.

Umm. That’s not even close to what I was saying, or the point I was making.

 

[pnwadventures]

I have ramps that are normally used to get my Cobra on its “pedestal.” A jack and a jack stand would work.

View attachment 687787

There is a gap on the driver’s side between the front belly pan and frame. (normally for control arms, front half shafts, etc.) Once under the car, it’s pretty easy to see the gap and see the hard lines/steering shaft. Once you see the hard lines, just reach up in the gap and feel for clearance between the two.

Takes longer to jack up and secure the car than to check for a gap.

Awesome, thanks. I’ve got ramps and have replaced the front motor shield before so familiar with the general procedure, but not sure what to look for.