Brake Lights.......at standstill

[paul360m]

I have searched for an answer to this BUT cannot find it so apologies if its been covered beofre - my question is, is there any way that the brake lights won't come on when at standstill other than sticking in P or N?

When coming to a stop & in Hold, the brake lights still seem to be on - this irritates me when I am following somebody in a traffic queue especially at night and /or wet conditions so don't want to contribute to the problem!

Am i missing a simple trick here??

Any assistance appreciated!

Cheers

Paul

 

[gearchruncher]

Why would you expect the brake lights not to be on? Stop and Hold is pressing the brake pedal for you, so it works exactly like every other car out there.

 

[richrootes]

Why would you expect the brake lights not to be on? Stop and Hold is pressing the brake pedal for you, so it works exactly like every other car out there.

Every car with an automatic transmission, yes. It’d be nice to be able to emulate the behaviour of a vehicle with manual transmission, where you use the handbrake to hold the car

An easy software tweak one would imagine

 

[gearchruncher]

It’d be nice to be able to emulate the behaviour of a vehicle with manual transmission, where you use the handbrake to hold the car

What percentage of drivers use the handbrake at every stop light in manual cars? I've never owned an automatic car (that wasn't an EV), and I never use the handbrake at stops. Most modern manuals have hill hold so they won't roll backwards, and in cities like Seattle, you have to use the completely manual handbrake REALLY hard to get it to not roll down a hill. Meanwhile just resting your foot on the power assisted 4 wheel brake foot pedal works great.

What is the annoyance of having your brake lights on when at a stop?

An easy software tweak one would imagine

Are you sure it's federally legal to turn off the brake lights when the pedal is depressed? What would your logic be? If car is at 0 MPH, turn off brake lights, even if pedal is pressed? Wouldn't this cause side issues like driving in a parking lot and not knowing that someone is in the car and about to move? Or even make traffic worse since when you're at a stop light, you can't tell the car in front of you is going until it's actually visually moving, instead of getting the visual signal that the driver has removed their foot from the brake?

I just don't understand the question. It appears to be "why doesn't a Tesla behave completely different from all other cars, because I don't want to be "part of the problem"?

 

[jaz4uk1]

Think of a situation you are at a stop day but even worse at a dark night and then a car behind approaches he thinks your starting off as the brake lights are not on. It alerts car behind your stationary or slowing down. Rain snow or fog even more important or there may be a bang.
A lot of people and people not fully awake may not notice you with no lights
So if your stopped having lights on saying I am stopped ensures that in all conditions alerts the driver behind not to shunt you. Step up from the hand brake on and possibly no lights.
I can touch the accelerator and they go off and same with approaching stationary traffic just slow down and creep up.

 

[richrootes]

What percentage of drivers use the handbrake at every stop light in manual cars? I've never owned an automatic car (that wasn't an EV), and I never use the handbrake at stops. Most modern manuals have hill hold so they won't roll backwards, and in cities like Seattle, you have to use the completely manual handbrake REALLY hard to get it to not roll down a hill. Meanwhile just resting your foot on the power assisted 4 wheel brake foot pedal works great.

What is the annoyance of having your brake lights on when at a stop?



Are you sure it's federally legal to turn off the brake lights when the pedal is depressed? What would your logic be? If car is at 0 MPH, turn off brake lights, even if pedal is pressed? Wouldn't this cause side issues like driving in a parking lot and not knowing that someone is in the car and about to move? Or even make traffic worse since when you're at a stop light, you can't tell the car in front of you is going until it's actually visually moving, instead of getting the visual signal that the driver has removed their foot from the brake?

I just don't understand the question. It appears to be "why doesn't a Tesla behave completely different from all other cars, because I don't want to be "part of the problem"?

Blimey that escalated quickly

In the UK, where you’re still taught how to drive correctly, you’d fail your test if you didn’t engage the handbrake when at a stop light or stop sign - at least that was the case in 1980 when I passed. Also, if you passed your test in an automatic, you were not licenced to drive a manual - but not vice versa

I‘m not a fan of blinding the driver of the vehicle stopped behind me with my high intensity brake lights, plus those at eye level only make matters worse at close quarters

That is all

 

[Clivew]

I’m with richrootes on this one. On all my previous manual cars I apply the handbrake when stopped, not the footbrake. As he said, when it’s wet or dark, and you are sitting in traffic, brake lights on the car in front of me hurt my eyes, especially as every other car seems to be a tank of an SUV nowadays. It’s to do with thinking of others.

 

[gearchruncher]

In the UK, where you’re still taught how to drive correctly, you’d fail your test if you didn’t engage the handbrake when at a stop light or stop sign - at least that was the case in 1980 when I passed.

It appears this is a regional thing, and it's not well based in any rationale or statistics. Some people say it's in case you get hit, but if that was true, automatics would also be "unsafe", as they will both come off the brakes and start rolling forward, and nobody seems to have an issue with EV's either. It is 100% clear that a handbrake is way less effective at stopping a car than the main brakes, so it's totally unclear why anyone would have an issue using the main brakes, especially now that the majority of cars are automatics or EV's (yes, even in the UK). I mean, if you're worried about being hit, using BOTH would be safest, yet you want to actively take your foot off the brake in this case.

It's interesting how this kind of regional stuff starts. I don't think I've ever heard someone in the USA complain that brake lights are blinding, while those of you in the UK appear to find it a serious issue. I'd still like to hear the proposed logic here. Is it that you want the car to turn off the brake lights whenever it's at zero MPH/KPH?

https://www.reddit.com/r/driving/comments/cly7v5

 

[jjrandorin]

it must be regional.... when I learned to drive, at 15 years old (1981), it was in a manual transmission car and you stepped on the brakes at a light. In fact, on the driving test, you had to know where the handbrake was (and pull it when you parked) but you were not supposed to touch it when driving at all.

I cant for the life of me understand how "the brake light might blind someone at a stop light" is safer than it being on, because if the brake ISNT on, todays drivers especially will "assume" the car is not braking.

I know how to drive a manual transmission car, and used to "hold" the car in place on hills with the engine etc, and we now know that isnt good either.

People used to think seat belts were dangerous and it "wasnt cool" to wear them in 1980, but we know better now. I cant think of a single reason why, when stopped, the brake lights should not be on... but I also dont live in europe.

 

[thesmokingman]

it must be regional.... when I learned to drive, at 15 years old (1981), it was in a manual transmission car and you stepped on the brakes at a light. In fact, on the driving test, you had to know where the handbrake was (and pull it when you parked) but you were not supposed to touch it when driving at all.

I cant for the life of me understand how "the brake light might blind someone at a stop light" is safer than it being on, because if the brake ISNT on, todays drivers especially will "assume" the car is not braking.

I know how to drive a manual transmission car, and used to "hold" the car in place on hills with the engine etc, and we now know that isnt good either.

People used to think seat belts were dangerous and it "wasnt cool" to wear them in 1980, but we know better now. I cant think of a single reason why, when stopped, the brake lights should not be on... but I also dont live in europe.

Second this. I've always been under the impression that we are supposed to hold the brake when stopped.

 

[Irata]

The logic I was always taught wasn't to do with blinding people (3rd brake lights didn't exist back then), it was that it's possible to accidently slip off the brake pedal In a rear collision (or get tired) but not so with a handbrake.

Obviously auto-hold changes that risk, plus in the days before powered brakes it would get rather uncomfortable holding the brake pedal for a long time while stopped on a steep slope. So there was good logic to it.

Times have changed of course. Equally I have never seen statistics supporting keeping the brake lights on when stationary in a queue causing an increase in rear collisions, especially when the car behind is also stationary and the one behind that etc. etc.

It does get to a point that a hundred cars totally stationary in a queue, all going nowhere for 20 minutes, all with their brake lights on does seem pointless.

It's more a situational thing.

 

[rwiegand]

60 years of driving a manual transmission and the only time I've ever used a handbrake at a stop is on a couple of extremely steep hills in San Francisco. No one in the states has ever suggested that this is a good idea in other circumstances, it certainly wasn't taught in driving class nor required for the license exam. Of course most of those vehicles didn't even have "hand" brakes as what we called a parking brake, but rather a foot-operated pedal that required reaching a lever under the dashboard to release it. Not something you'd want to do at every stop!

When I'm stopped in the middle of the road at night I want my brake lights on so that the guy coming up behind me knows I'm either not moving or slowing down. Never heard of anyone being blinded by brake lights, never had it happen in pretty extensive driving in the UK, so I don't think the brake lights are especially bright over there.

 

[MP3Mike]

I think this stems from regulations in the UK from rule 114:

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

But only after someone has already stopped behind you.

 

[tm1v2]

This seems like much ado about...nothing. Using the handbrake at a stoplight is personal preference, there's no right or wrong. Just make sure your lights are on in the dark.

I used the handbrake at stoplights all the time in my manual cars, just to relieve leg pain from holding a pedal constantly. Same reason I use cruise control when it's safe on long highway drives.

Even in my Model S (no "Hold" mode) I use Neutral or just put it into Park at stoplights when I know the cycle takes a while. I LOVE the "Hold" mode on my Model 3 and I don't care at all if it leaves the brake lights on or not. Anywhere I've lived, most drivers/cars have their brake lights on at stoplights, so it's never occurred to me that anyone would expect otherwise.

 

[pipp]

I think the most important thing, when stopped at a long stoplight, is to NOT park your foot lightly on the accelerator, because an unexpected impact could easily cause you to stomp down with your foot. It’s fine if your foot reflexively stomps down when it is resting lightly on the brake. I would tease the Brits a little about using hand brakes but they don’t deserve it, having already been treated a bit rudely…

 

[ARKEBUS]

This is an interesting regional practice. If the handbrake were applied like this in the USA, the following driver would likely think that you had released your brakes and were starting to move. You could get rear-ended.

In the state of Kansas, in the 1950s, left turners had the right of way. This made sense with light, local traffic, helping to keep the roadways clear. Needless to say this did not end well when Interstate highways started bringing drivers from other states. That law got changed to align with the other states.

 

[jaz4uk1]

Hand brake stops you jolting forward after a rear shunt and shut the car in front. If your sitting on the brake peddle and get shunted your foot releases the brake and so you are no longer braking.

In poor weather no lights and hand brake on worst situation to alert car behind approaching you.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

60 years of driving a manual transmission and the only time I've ever used a handbrake at a stop is on a couple of extremely steep hills in San Francisco.

Yeah, I've been driving manuals, mostly performance cars, for ~30 years, and brake >> handbrake (a hand operated lever) >> release brake >> immediately move forward on a very steep hill is the only way I've ever used the handbrake on the street.

This is an interesting regional practice. If the handbrake were applied like this in the USA, the following driver would likely think that you had released your brakes and were starting to move. You could get rear-ended.

Exactly this, the brake lights are an indicator of intent. I'd also suggest this idea of "It keeps you from moving forward in a rear end collision" concept is probably need to be thought out in the context of physics, energy transfer, etc., I'm not sure that have less "give" is beneficial to the occupants.

 

[jaz4uk1]

Yeah, I've been driving manuals, mostly performance cars, for ~30 years, and brake >> handbrake (a hand operated lever) >> release brake >> immediately move forward on a very steep hill is the only way I've ever used the handbrake on the street.



Exactly this, the brake lights are an indicator of intent. I'd also suggest this idea of "It keeps you from moving forward in a rear end collision" concept is probably need to be thought out in the context of physics, energy transfer, etc., I'm not sure that have less "give" is beneficial to the occupants.

Agreed on a a hill start manual gear box is the only time I use the handbrake when not parked.

My last 3 BMWs had engine stop start which needed the brake peddle pressed to put the engine into ready stop mode and starts as you begin to take it off.

 

[richrootes]

Opinions are like bumholes - everybody has one

The fact of the matter is, using the hand brake was drilled into people learning to drive in my era. It was as much used as an indicator to the examiner that you acknowledged the red light OR the rare case of a Stop Sign (most such signs in the UK are ‘give way’) as anything else

Brake lights are very bright - if you’re stuck in a line of queueing traffic, it’s very uncomfortable to the eyes - and I’m courteous enough to want to do something about this for the poor person following

Again ‘in the old days’ having worked on quite a few of my own and cars belonging to friends, you often saw the 21W brake light bulbs melting or distorting their holder - demonstrating they were not designed for semi continuous use

As for stop/start systems on manual transmission vehicles - the only ones I’ve ever used have relied on depression of the clutch pedal to restart the engine. Thankfully those days are long gone

Enjoy your Sunday, everyone