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Brake Pads

Discussion in 'Roadster: Performance' started by Roger Reid, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Carbotech rears (CT491L) are $139 each and the fronts (CT109L) are $137. So $552 for the whole car. That's for the 1521 compound which is what I run and have been happy. They work when I want them to with no dust and no squeaks. The AX-6 is one step up and slightly more expensive ($153/$151). KNS Brakes

    As for labor, if that $100 includes bleeding that's a pretty good price. But unless you are very good friends w/ your SC they stopped installing non-Tesla parts a long time ago.

    But as the others have said, it's pretty straightforward. I'm pretty sure there's a link to a step by step tutorial in this thread on how to do it. Any competent mechanic could follow those steps and do it - if they're a Lotus mechanic it's a no brainer. Many of us have done it in our garage. But I agree w/ tvuolo, make sure you bed them in properly - you'll need an empty straight road. Doesn't have to be long - a mile is good. http://www.hawkperformance.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Motorsports_Bedding.pdf
     
    • Like x 1
  2. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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    Here's a writeup from CarboTech on the differences between the Bobcat 1521 pads and the AX6's. One thing to consider, if you do lots of driving in very cold temps, say below 50F you may want to consider the 1521's. Reason being is that the AX6's work starting at 50F and the Bobcat's at ambient. In weather that's below 50F it may take a little time for the AX6's to reach a good working temp. Same with driving in cold rain. I'd suspect in cold rain that the 1521's may perform a little better off the start due to a lower working temp.

    Just some things to consider. I run the AX6's and love them, but the majority of my driving is above 50F. Cold mornings don't appear to be an issue but just putting the data out for those who are looking for the best fitting pad with their current driving conditions. Also the AX6's will wear the rotors faster than the 1521's, however that's where the bite and extra stopping power comes from, more friction between the pad and the disk:

    Brake Compounds

    Carbotech™ 1521™

    The Carbotech™ 1521™ is our high performance street compound. The 1521™ compound is known for its release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. 1521™ is also a very low dusting and low noise compound with an excellent initial bite. This compound's excellent linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Carbotech™ 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 800°F (426°C+). 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle or fleet vehicle. Carbotech™ 1521™ is NOT recommended for ANY track use.

    Carbotech™ AX6™

    The AX6™ is specifically engineered for Autocross applications. A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range of 50°F to 1000°F + (10°C to 537°C+). The advanced compound matrix provides an excellent initial bite, high coefficient of friction at lower temperatures along with very progressive brake modulation and release characteristics. Many drivers use the AX6™ for street driving as well, even though Carbotech™ doesn't recommend street driving with AX6™ due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise. AX6™ is NOT recommended as a race compound in most applications.
     
    • Informative x 1
  3. JohnGarziglia

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
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    Reston, Virginia
    I really appreciate this discussion. Replacement of my Roadster's brake pads with something better has been on my to-do list for a long time. I started to order the AX6s based upon this discussion thread but I asked THMotorsports who is a Carbontech dealer about this and this is what Mike Serritella there said:

    If you are in a climate where weather gets below 50 degrees I would not run the AX6 Pads. They are meant for mainly track use but can be used as a street pad in warm climates. For your application I would recommend going with the 1521 pads.​

    Therefore, I have proceeded with ordering the Bobcat 1521 pads. THMotorsports appears to have them for a good price and does not charge for shipping (see Brakes » Brake Pads » Carbotech Products for: 2008 LOTUS ELISE):

    Order Items
    QTY Description Price Extended Price
    1 ITEM: Carbotech Bobcat 1521 Front Elise/Exige (CT109L-1521) $133.00 $133.00
    1 ITEM: Carbotech Bobcat 1521 Rear Elise/Exige (CT491L-1521) $135.00 $135.00

    Order Summary
    Items Total: $268.00
    Shipping (UPS Ground): $0.00
    Tax: $0.00
    Grand Total: $268.00

    Your order is currently being processed and will be shipped as soon as possible.

    If you have any questions please e-mail us at: [email protected].

    Thanks for shopping at THMotorsports.​
     
    • Informative x 1
  4. supersnoop

    supersnoop Tesla Roadster #334

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    Brake pads are sold in sets. Total would be $276, not $552.
     
    • Informative x 1
  5. strider

    strider Active Member

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    I'm a moron. :confused: I can't edit my post - there must be a time-limit after which editing isn't possible? Ah well, hopefully folks will keep reading down to your correction.
     
  6. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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    I think the $552 total includes California sales tax! :)
     
    • Funny x 1
  7. Stefan T

    Stefan T Member

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    I have put in orginal ATE brake pads for Opel Rekord D/E, Ascona B And Manta B
    The break better than the old orginal brake pads
    But i had to grind them down before could install them
    The thinkness was 16mm on them the and the Lotus/Tesla brake pads are 14.5mm thick
     
  8. jnordeng

    jnordeng Member

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    Do you have a part number for the pads?
     
  9. Stefan T

    Stefan T Member

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    I bought them from Mekonomen E-handel
    There art number is 02-605030
    But it i have take a look on pakage for the art ATE art number but it is in the paper trach in the garge
    see if i rember to do it next time i are there
     
  10. Stefan T

    Stefan T Member

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    the art number is ATE # 13.0460-5030.2 605030 EAN 4 006633082679
     
  11. NomoC8

    NomoC8 Member

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    A few questions. Which color Loctite on the rear caliper bolt? How much torque on that bolt? What's the torque on the wheel lug bolts?
     
  12. NomoC8

    NomoC8 Member

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    Found my answers. Sector 111 video says blue Loctite, 33 ft lbs. The wheels are 77 ft lbs.

    One tip on the rear brakes. I had a little trouble getting the bolt far enough out to swing the caliper down. Unlike the Lotus, ours has a dust boot on both ends of the bolt. Despite my pulling, prying, and cursing it wound not clear the bracket. I removed the retaining pin from the pads and the outside pad can be removed from underneath. This gives enough room to swing the caliper down. Reverse the process to reinstall.

    I put Carbotech XP 8 & 10's on. Track day tomorrow!
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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  14. Mark77a

    Mark77a Member

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    Fix for Brake pad rattle - (Not sport shock absorbers after all)
    I posted a fix for annoying front suspension rattle that come from loose pads, this works !
    Re-posted from:
    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1693502/
    and
    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1695005/

    pasted below for this sticky:
    Just fixed annoying brake rattle.
    Turns out it can be fixed by ... wait for it ..... the anti-rattle spring plate
    [​IMG]

    See the little hook along the top of this plate - which hooks onto the top pin - call it a
    Also see the horizontal wider bit below the hook - call it b

    b fits under the extension of the backing plates, around top pin hole, that sticks out backwards.
    The pin holes in back plate are much bigger than the pins so the pad can move, expand and be pushed UP against caliper on braking.
    When the spring is new (or tweaked), b holds the pads higher, nearer to the top surface inside the caliper which they are pressed against on braking. This also means they dont rattle - which is the pads especially when hot / expanded bouncing on the lower surface of the caliper.

    The cure is: buy new anti-rattle spring plates AND/OR make sure they hold the pads HIGH in the caliper (braking position).
    I found my 26K old anti-rattle spring plates allowed ~1mm free play which let the pads bounce about enough to hit the lower surface of the caliper. The free play downwards, can be reduced by reducing the distance between a & b.
    I found the easiest way to do this was the very slightly squeeze the hook, reducing its inner radii, and so reducing the a to b gap.
    This simply raised the pads by about 0.5mm, without adding any more friction or restriction in movement.
    The pin holes in brake back plates are now held so that pins sit below centre - as pads sit higher.
    [​IMG]
    After getting annoyed by this rattle coming and going, and loads of surprising miss-info 'bum-steers', on various forums etc. this worked.

    What bends the anti-rattle plates, so they need renewal/tweaking, and make the rattle worse, is braking in reverse, especially when pads are cold, or slightly smaller higher performance pads (which might be smaller for wider expansion tolerances), this pulls the pads DOWN, stretching the anti-rattle plate in the wrong direction, hence allowing the pads rattle on the bottom surface.

    The Pads are biased UP wards (in direction of rotation) to stop rattling.... more pix below.
    I hope this explains.

    [​IMG]

    as fitted....
    [​IMG]
    Note the hard rubbery patches below the pads (I guess a previous Tesla / lotus attempt to stop rattling).


    Also FWIW, the back of the pads had a small amount of thick grey brake grease, which will also help - a bit.
    These are CarboTech pads, which have (black) metal plates transferred from original Tesla pads. These backing plates just seem to take up width, and provide a flat smooth surface for the pistons to act on (vs more irregular back plate), they dont contribute to anti rattle. LH below, as grease spread, RHS after trial fitting.
    [​IMG]

    Key point: avoid much hard braking in reverse, as this can undo the upwards bias and the dreaded rattle will return... ie lots of braking when backing up / in reverse can undo the fix.

    Please note: all "you do at own risk" provisos apply to these notes.
     
    • Informative x 3
  15. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    Interesting, my car was rotationally-clunking from the right front; a tiny bit of Brake Quiet on the BACK surface of the brake pad was enough as it makes it slightly sticky to the piston and not allow it to move up/down inside the caliper (not visible to the eye but quite to the ear!)

    I've had to do this on other cars as well because no amount of anti-rattle (ironic) clip munging about with seemed to work
     
  16. skadax

    skadax Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Upgraded to the Carbotech 1521s today. Was a pretty easy job. Only thing difficult for me was I had a frozen lugnut which would not budge. I even used a breaker bar on my ratchet and that only broke the ratcheting mechanism on my good old made in USA Craftsman 3/8" drive ratchet. Sears gave me a new one for free, but unfortunately they're not made in America anymore, new one is made in China. I had to take the car over to Discount Tire and the nice folks there got the lugnut off for me.

    Aside from that 2 hour detour, the rest of the job went well. The fronts were very easy and only took about 15 mins each. Unlike some others here, I did not have to remove the front calipers. Removing the spring plate and then using a C-clamp to depress the pads back worked nicely to push the pistons back and I was able to wiggle the old pads free.

    The rears probably took me about 30 mins each. The spring and pin assembly can be a little annoying to get back on but otherwise fairly straightforward.

    Used the CRC goop and the blue Loctite as recommended by folks here. Went out and bedded the brakes in just now and so far, so good.

    Thanks to all the help with the prior posts in this forum!
     
    • Helpful x 1
  17. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    Just as an FYI, the EBC pads (reds) had a stick on plate that was pretreated on the other side to attatch to the piston. I would have taken photos but I was in a rush, but they are basiclly a premade goop thats nice and linear so you can slide the pads back in uniformly. Amazing breaking from them, in the wet or dry and first thing with rust on the calpers. I think the original combination of rotor and pad was just a really bad combination. Just changing out the pads will cure a lot of brake issues.
     
    • Informative x 1
  18. hallvardr

    hallvardr Member

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    Sep 17, 2016
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    Location:
    Norway
    I went for the EBC ultimax since I drive the car pretty much every day for work. Even those pads improved braking. So far I'm very happy with them. I had redstuff on my old car, but did not think the braking improvements lived up to the price difference over the ultimax. Was considering redstuff for the Tesla, but think I will stick to ultimax here too.
     
  19. hanknum

    hanknum Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    What is the consensus on getting rid of brake noise? I swapped out the OEM for Carbotech AX-6's. After bedding them in, I'm getting a bit of chatter when coming to a stop. I've got some brake grease, but the old ones were glued in place with some adhesive.

    Strange thing about the rear pads though, each of them had a "pin" on the back of the pad that protruded out. The OEM's did not and I could not install like that, so I filed them down. Anyone know what those were for?
     
  20. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    #260 X.l.r.8, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
    The pads are glued to the caliper and the piston, if they are free floating they will clunk and chatter, I use bendix blue, you coat the area that contacts the caliper and piston, wait 10 minutes and reassemble. Not sure about the pin as I use EBC’s

    FB4C7A2A-7FBC-4BE4-9B60-F256279B8784.jpeg
    One bottle has lasted me years
     
    • Informative x 2

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