Breaker box help. Possible to install a charger?

[rutherford123]

Looking forward to getting a model 3 but I'm concerned about charging. I'm thinking of getting a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed. However, I only have 100 A service. Is that enough? Also, do I have enough space for another breaker in the panel? Any help/advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[patrick40363]

You should be fine. I have one installed and have 100 amp service.

 

[1965Falcon]

You need to do a load calculation to determine if you have enough spare amps to install a 50 amp breaker. Take a look at this worksheet:


https://www.ladbs.org/docs/default-...oad-calculation-form-in-form-00.pdf?sfvrsn=16

 

[Tessaract]

I agree with 1965Falcon. To be code-compliant, you must perform a load calculation to determine how much additional EVSE load your existing service/loads will accommodate. Unfortunately, the electrical code requires that your load calculation pretend that the EVSE load will occur simultaneous with all other continuous loads in your house. We know that that is not reality for Tesla owners, and that if you charge at night only you will almost certainly "be OK" even with fairly high charge currents, but the electrical code forces you to calculate a worst case load calculation.

As an example, I had a 100A service and needed to upgrade my service to accommodate an EVSE on 20A (or larger) circuit. ( I have gas space and water heating, electric clothes dryer, electric stove).

 

[SSedan]

Also there are choices besides the 14-50.
In a cold climate I would go as big as your service allows based on the load calc. maybe that means a 14-30 or a wall connector at one of its many amperage settings.

 

[1965Falcon]

Just taking a quick look at your panel and doing some estimating, I think you are currently at your limit or maybe even beyond.

 

[Runt8]

You should be fine. I have one installed and have 100 amp service.

This is not great advice - his current load could be (and more than likely is) completely different from yours. Being able to install an additional 40-50amp circuit on a 100amp service is the exception, not the norm. @1965Falcon is completely correct, you need to have a load calculation done.

 

[qdeathstar]

I think you are pushing the limits currently. I think you need to upgrade your service.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Congratulations on the most stuffed panel I've ever seen. I count 22 'lights&plugs' breakers, in ADDITION to the bedroom plugs and the panel/outside/sump/kitchen/bar plugs. I hope someone got a REALLY good deal on wire and breakers! I'd also bet that that outdoor plug breaker should be a gfci(unless its already in the outlet itself which is very possible).

As far as panel space, you can make it easily by combining some of those lights&plugs breakers and putting in another tandem duplex breaker pair. You could also disconnect your 'steamer' and use that breaker for the EV.

As far as capacity, you need to do a load calculation. You probably don't have enough even for the loads you currently have.

 

[Tessaract]

Just taking a quick look at your panel and doing some estimating, I think you are currently at your limit or maybe even beyond.
View attachment 521474

I would just add one detail observation.. Load Calculation details differ from one jurisdiction to another, and Alberta may (and probably does) use a slightly different load calculation than the NEC. Your local Home Depot probably carries an "Electrical Code Simplified" guide that will be useful for your exact case. It may yield a slightly different answer than the NEC calculation.

 

[MrMassTransit]

One option is to install something like a DCC-10, which does not require a load calculation since it monitors how much current is being drawn and will shut off power to your EV charging circuit if your other needs are drawing more than a particular threshold.

Given how packed your panel is, that may be the only way forward other than upgrading your service. I have 100 amp service also and have significantly less demand on my panel (I'm in a 2 BR, 800 sq ft condo). When my load calculation was done, I was offered the option of either a 30 amp circuit without a DCC or a 50 amp with one. I went with the former since that was fine for my needs (DCC pushed the cost up by $1k, but that may have partly been a result of a long run that would require higher gauge wire).

 

[eprosenx]

Looking forward to getting a model 3 but I'm concerned about charging. I'm thinking of getting a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed. However, I only have 100 A service. Is that enough? Also, do I have enough space for another breaker in the panel? Any help/advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Lots of good advice in this thread so far.

That panel is hilariously maxed on number of circuits, HOWEVER, you don't seem to have a ton of 240v loads. You have a lot of overkill lights and plugs circuits, but the number of those circuits does not actually contribute to the load calculation in the NEC (it is based on square footage for that stuff). Regardless though, I am guessing you only have a 100a service (but I need more photos to tell).

Can you take some more photos and post them? Specifically, I want confirmation that the 100a at the top is the "main". Pictures of the stickers on the door are critical (so we can read all the text). If safe to do so then pictures with the panel cover off would be great as well.

But yeah, you probably are already exceeding load calculations if it is only 100a. My next set of questions are around how hard it might be to upgrade to 200a... If you were really lucky then maybe you already have a conduit into that panel that could just be re-conductored to support 200a. As others have mentioned, a DCC unit might be a solution, (but you would still need to figure out how to get a circuit off of that thing, unless you intercepted the main as it came from the meter).

We actually also need to know if that panel is the main panel (with neutral and ground bonded), or perhaps a subpanel. Pictures of how the power enters the building would be great (meter base, etc...). Perhaps another option might be to make this into a subpanel and have a 200a panel at the meter base location or something that would let you tap the car charger off of that directly (but then you are likely in a situation where you would need to upgrade from a 3 wire to a 4 wire cable to the existing panel which would then be a sub panel).

There are always options! (nice modern electrical service btw)

P.S. Does the house still have electric ovens and an electric dryer? One option might be converting the dryer to be gas...

 

[gfunkdave]

Also the Steamer circuit might not be needed. 240V 20A charging is perfectly good for many people.

 

[user212_nr]

Congratulations on the most stuffed panel I've ever seen. I count 22 'lights&plugs' breakers, in ADDITION to the bedroom plugs and the panel/outside/sump/kitchen/bar plugs. I hope someone got a REALLY good deal on wire and breakers!

In Canada the rules may be different, as some have mentioned. It is unlikely that they did this just to be special. The double switched single-pole breakers are unusual also. As are the poles that join two separate breakers. Probably a Canadian thing.

That panel is hilariously maxed on number of circuits, HOWEVER, you don't seem to have a ton of 240v loads.

He's got quite a few. 30A drier, 40A a/c, 40A range oven, 20A steamer. The A/C will run during the summer, so he is starting with 60A. He has only 20A left for his entire house when cooking in the summer.

Also the Steamer circuit might not be needed.

Its not enough just to take another circuit because that circuit not being used means that it does not affect the load.

I think you are pushing the limits currently. I think you need to upgrade your service.

I'd think so also. There is a post from some guy in Hawaii who melted his main circuit breaker doing this.

 

[Electric700]

Also the Steamer circuit might not be needed. 240V 20A charging is perfectly good for many people.

Right, you can install a 6-20 240 V outlet and just set the in-car current to a lower setting, like 10 A initially to be on the safer side. This works for me (I also have a GFCI breaker for that). Overnight, you can still get close to +100 miles or more if you set the current higher.

The dryer, range, AC etc. should operate at 80% maximum, so 24 A, 32 A, 32 A etc.

Perhaps also invest in a whole house surge protector like this one:

Leviton 120-Volt/240-Volt Residential Whole House Surge Protector-R02-51110-SRG - The Home Depot

 

[Rocky_H]

Right, you can install a 6-20 240 V outlet and just set the in-car current to a lower setting, like 10 A initially to be on the safer side.

The questions for this thread seem to be about what can legitimately be installed within code. Just picking a circuit level with no information and then manually dialing down the current on a hunch and then just lettin' 'er rip to see what will happen is NOT the way to do this and is frankly dangerous and irresponsible to recommend.

The dryer, range, AC etc. should operate at 80% maximum, so 24 A, 32 A, 32 A etc.

That does not apply to dryers, ranges, or A/Cs. The 80% derating rule is for continuous loads. Those appliances have power that cycles on and off intermittently, so they are not continuous loads. So for some of them, they may be capable of drawing 100% of the circuit rating for periods of time, and that is acceptable, because then they will cycle off again for a while, giving the wiring time to cool down. That is how NEC is designed.