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"Breaking Bad" - Daily articles now hitting the news wires
- Thread starter GolanB
- Start date
Tesla needs to update there terms of service with regards to fsd and autopilot so they can refute claims like this publically with video and car data... all these claims of the car crashing itself are going to cost Tesla money.
And of course if they are true Tesla should address the issues, but thus far all we have is claims made by people who don’t want to be responsible for a crash... not exactly a reliable source, imo.
And of course if they are true Tesla should address the issues, but thus far all we have is claims made by people who don’t want to be responsible for a crash... not exactly a reliable source, imo.
groovidad
Living the Dream!
Being a "good driver" or not a "bad driver" doesn't cover mistakes made...and we've all made them. Some small and some big.
Regarding responsible journalism, before anyone could publish anything - there was a sign-off I'll never forget "And that's the way it was" at the end of the broadcast. Back when we had a total of 3 channels, and they went dark at 10:00PM.
Who here is old enough to know who that was? I miss that guy, and the days when you could believe what was reported.
Who here is old enough to know who that was? I miss that guy, and the days when you could believe what was reported.
Keep in mind, there are privacy concerns which restrict who can access and publish data that is retrieved from the Event Data Recorder (EDR); there are federal privacy acts which require a court order, concent by the vehicle owner, for medical purposes, or anonymous traffic safety research.
From Wikipedia:
Despite alerts and warnings in their vehicle owner's manual, many drivers are not aware of their vehicle's recording capability. Civil liberty and privacy groups have raised concerns about the implications of data recorders 'spying' on car users, particularly as the issue of 'who owns the data' has not yet been fully resolved, and there has been some controversy over the use of recorded data as evidence in court cases and for insurance claims against the driver of a crashed vehicle. But the use of EDR data in civil and criminal court cases is on the rise as they become more accepted as a source of reliable empirical evidence in accident reconstruction.[15]
Fourteen states have statutes specific to EDRs. Generally, these state statutes restrict access to the EDR or limit the use of recovered EDR information.
The federal Driver Privacy Act of 2015 was enacted on December 4, 2015. It stated that the owner or lessee of a motor vehicle is the owner of the data collected by the EDR. In order to access that data, an investigator would need to (1) be authorized by a court or judicial or administrative authority, subject to the standards for admission into evidence; (2) obtain the written, electronic or recorded audio consent of the vehicle owner or lessee; (3) be conducting an investigation or inspection authorized by federal law; (4) demonstrate it is necessary to facilitate medical care in response to a car accident; or (5) be conducting traffic safety research, so long as the personal information of the owner/lessee is not disclosed.[16]
Fourteen states have statutes specific to EDRs. Generally, these state statutes restrict access to the EDR or limit the use of recovered EDR information.
The federal Driver Privacy Act of 2015 was enacted on December 4, 2015. It stated that the owner or lessee of a motor vehicle is the owner of the data collected by the EDR. In order to access that data, an investigator would need to (1) be authorized by a court or judicial or administrative authority, subject to the standards for admission into evidence; (2) obtain the written, electronic or recorded audio consent of the vehicle owner or lessee; (3) be conducting an investigation or inspection authorized by federal law; (4) demonstrate it is necessary to facilitate medical care in response to a car accident; or (5) be conducting traffic safety research, so long as the personal information of the owner/lessee is not disclosed.[16]
EfficientWatts
Member
People may hate this, but I think this should be the reason (at least in the us) to make creep on by default. With creep on for low speed movement you don't need to use the gas and your foot will be over the brake more.
It won't eliminate of course but I think it well help. And if you don't like it you can just turn it off still.
It was amazing though to see the level of debate here over creep on or off on these forums. We have to remember now that as these cars go more mainstream we need to make some tweaks.
It won't eliminate of course but I think it well help. And if you don't like it you can just turn it off still.
It was amazing though to see the level of debate here over creep on or off on these forums. We have to remember now that as these cars go more mainstream we need to make some tweaks.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Most sudden acceleration are from creep vehicles which means gasoline car!
I prefer non-creep so that when in doubt, the best policy is to lift up your foot even when you think it's a correct brake pedal and the car would not creep!
Too many articles.
I'm surprised the star of Aladdin crashing his Model 3 and blaming Tesla didn't get more publicity. I also recently saw an article where a Ford Fiesta caught fire because it got hit by a Tesla. I think 2 sisters died so it was newsworthy, but the headlines were very sensationalized because of Tesla.
I'm surprised the star of Aladdin crashing his Model 3 and blaming Tesla didn't get more publicity. I also recently saw an article where a Ford Fiesta caught fire because it got hit by a Tesla. I think 2 sisters died so it was newsworthy, but the headlines were very sensationalized because of Tesla.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I think this TV reporter did a good job with available resources.
The driver provided more stories on her side and the TV verified those: from video footage, to the tire mark, to the damages physically and emotionally.
Tesla provided a statement and the TV also reported that.
Tesla should have invited the TV to its factory and presented how scientific data would dispute the driver's stories.
Tesla gave TV no video footage so there's no way the TV could include any on its report.
A single Tesla statement is no where as dramatic as a demo of how the foot pedals are recorded with graphic demos.
There has never been a proven case of an electronic throttle unintended acceleration. There have been jammed aftermarket floor pads. The National Academy of Sciences investigation found no possibility of Toyota systems malfunction other than a sticky pedal. All brake systems can override any amount of throttle and indeed most electronic throttle cars cause the throttle to close with brake application. These accidents peak with new drivers and old drivers. They are ALL "pedal confusion". You will never be able to prove that to those involved. Toyota made a settlement because they didn't want to go before US juries. The utmost condemnation must be brought to bear on people who claim this no matter what the effect on them to dissuade others.
Tam
Well-Known Member
That's the key: The TV reporter would have not known this incidence if Tesla reached out to the owner and worked it out with the owner.
When a local TV audience reached out for a story with $100,000 damages, it is appropriate for the reporter to report both sides of the stories.
She did except that Tesla only provided a very dry single statement while the driver could provide much more graphic story.
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eprosenx
Active Member
So I have avoided posting this as I have been waiting for a response from Tesla and I did not want to feed the trolls without hard data (which I still don't have).
A couple of months ago I got into my car (after loading my four year old in the back and with my wife in the passenger seat). I immediately put the car in drive and gently touched the accelerator pedal (as I do every time I get in my car). The car shot forward and spun its tires on the gravel I was parked for (headed straight towards my sister who was getting in the car in front of me). I immediately slammed on the brakes and the car stopped accelerating and stopped without issue. No damage was done, nobody was hurt. The car then operated normally for the 45 minute drive home (and ever since).
This was obviously a jarring event for myself and my family and so I took a picture of the display screen to log the precise time of the issue. Once I got home I immediately called Tesla Roadside Support and asked them to save off the log files. They responded appropriately and were able to pull the log files off. They committed to contact me back after they analyzed the logs.
It is now two months later and during that time I have called them twice to request updates. Both times they have committed to follow through and call me back, but they have never done so. I have been able to confirm that the logs were properly pulled and it has made its way through the escalation process at Tesla and all the way to the development teams. So I assume there is something there, but I have received zero feedback.
Note that I have received a couple of software updates since I had this issue, so it is completely possible that if there was a software issue it has already been addressed. Without contact from Tesla however, I have no way to know.
Some other background data, I am under 40, and I had owned the car for about nine months when this happened, so I don't think inexperience with the vehicle was a factor. I also don't currently have any financial positions in Tesla stock for what that is worth. I did not go shop this to the media or anything...
So I am a sample set of one. Obviously I by myself do not make a statistically representative sample size. Note that I do love the car and I am a huge advocate, but honestly, I do worry that if the car takes off on its own, I have no idea how I would stop it if depressing the brake pedal did not work. There is zero chance the wimpy brakes in the Model 3 could counter the massive torque from the electric motor. As far as I know, there is no physical switch I can hit from the drivers position that disconnects power to the high voltage contactor or something (i.e. like an ignition in an ICE vehicle).
As others have noted, ALL car models have reports of unintended acceleration. Often times this is due to driver mistakes, or just people lying, but the question is how to you determine whether or not there is actually an issue in that noise? Also, when you have produced large numbers of vehicles at the end of the day you can't ever drive cases of mishaps to zero. There is just a defect rate that even with double safeties will sometimes align to create a bad situation. The reality is that there is some level at which it is infrequent enough to accept the risk.
I am curious if there are others with a similar experience.
A couple of months ago I got into my car (after loading my four year old in the back and with my wife in the passenger seat). I immediately put the car in drive and gently touched the accelerator pedal (as I do every time I get in my car). The car shot forward and spun its tires on the gravel I was parked for (headed straight towards my sister who was getting in the car in front of me). I immediately slammed on the brakes and the car stopped accelerating and stopped without issue. No damage was done, nobody was hurt. The car then operated normally for the 45 minute drive home (and ever since).
This was obviously a jarring event for myself and my family and so I took a picture of the display screen to log the precise time of the issue. Once I got home I immediately called Tesla Roadside Support and asked them to save off the log files. They responded appropriately and were able to pull the log files off. They committed to contact me back after they analyzed the logs.
It is now two months later and during that time I have called them twice to request updates. Both times they have committed to follow through and call me back, but they have never done so. I have been able to confirm that the logs were properly pulled and it has made its way through the escalation process at Tesla and all the way to the development teams. So I assume there is something there, but I have received zero feedback.
Note that I have received a couple of software updates since I had this issue, so it is completely possible that if there was a software issue it has already been addressed. Without contact from Tesla however, I have no way to know.
Some other background data, I am under 40, and I had owned the car for about nine months when this happened, so I don't think inexperience with the vehicle was a factor. I also don't currently have any financial positions in Tesla stock for what that is worth. I did not go shop this to the media or anything...
So I am a sample set of one. Obviously I by myself do not make a statistically representative sample size. Note that I do love the car and I am a huge advocate, but honestly, I do worry that if the car takes off on its own, I have no idea how I would stop it if depressing the brake pedal did not work. There is zero chance the wimpy brakes in the Model 3 could counter the massive torque from the electric motor. As far as I know, there is no physical switch I can hit from the drivers position that disconnects power to the high voltage contactor or something (i.e. like an ignition in an ICE vehicle).
As others have noted, ALL car models have reports of unintended acceleration. Often times this is due to driver mistakes, or just people lying, but the question is how to you determine whether or not there is actually an issue in that noise? Also, when you have produced large numbers of vehicles at the end of the day you can't ever drive cases of mishaps to zero. There is just a defect rate that even with double safeties will sometimes align to create a bad situation. The reality is that there is some level at which it is infrequent enough to accept the risk.
I am curious if there are others with a similar experience.
groovidad
Living the Dream!
eprosenx
Active Member
Tam
Well-Known Member
If you have the creep off, take off all your feet off all the pedals and that alone would drastically decelerate your car due to the unique nature of regen that ICE lacks.
Try with your 2 feet on 2 pedals yourself. The brake always wins no matter how much more you floor the accelerator.
Since you already experienced sudden acceleration, I would suggest driving barefoot. It makes a real difference to feel the difference between the 2 pedals.
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Tam
Well-Known Member
It's very slow speed so the car can easily be stopped by a wall even without braking.
Tesla has the answer with the car's log. Please ask Tesla!
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