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Brexit

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Buckminster, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Singer3000

    Singer3000 Member

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    You illustrate my point for me perfectly. All a free trade deal between the US and UK would do is allow US firms to bid for contracts tendered by the NHS that are ALREADY being conducted by the private sector but currently being monopolised by European providers. Such medical care is still being provided free at the point of use under the socialised NHS model and the patient is utterly oblivious to what’s happening in the accounts department.

    The sad and simple truth is that it’s almost impossible to talk even with educated and rational people about efficiency in the NHS, without triggering them into rants about for example, death panels and patients being driven to suicide.
     
  2. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Yup, US involvement won't change anything. NHS provides average care for average value for money. They try very hard but organisation is held back by IT systems etc. Not unlike Tesla, Neroden would say....

    Down to the final 4 candidates. Rory Stewart (out) may not have done as well as he could have because he was giving Boris too hard a time.... The 3 are already auditioning for jobs in Boris' cabinet on national TV. Boris moving slightly towards a more centrist position on Brexit - now that he has the job and the right in the bag. He doesn't need to worry about Farage as long as Brexit completes before 2022.

    Lib Dems looking good with Chuka Ummuna on board. Labour - basket case.
     
  3. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Just Boris and Hunt remaining. Boris has made his first significant mistake - neighbour called police after hearing an argument with his girlfriend. Won't change anything.
     
  4. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    Girlfriend said neighbor is an anti-Brexit leftie trying to stir up trouble for Boris.

    I don't think it will switch any dues paying members of the Conservative Party.
     
  5. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    International studies actually say the NHS provides slightly-above-average care (close enough to average) for *much better than average* value for money. Just FYI.

    Heh. :)
     
  6. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    Looks like after Trump survived so many scandals, all politician are going to ride through the scandal and see what happens. Newspapers no longer have the ability to make politicians drop out by writing endlessly about scandals.

    This holds good for Boris as well as Biden.
     
  7. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Boris has got enough Teflon and enough of a record of genuine kindness that he may ride through scandals. Boris is a man who personally stopped a mugging which he happened to encounter while on his bicycle.

    Biden... doesn't have anything like that, and has a *lot* of nasty stuff on his record, ranging from support for segregation to harassment of women reporting sexual harassment.
     
  8. Fact Checking

    Fact Checking Active Member

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    Do you mean the decision by voters to enter the EU in 1975 by an overwhelming majority of 67% was changed by an undemocratic BRExit vote in 2016, which only gained a slim 51% majority? ;)
     
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  9. Chocochip

    Chocochip Member

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    You’re spelling “the will of 17 million British people” wrong.
     
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  10. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    The UK voters never voted to enter the EU.
     
  11. Fact Checking

    Fact Checking Active Member

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  12. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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  13. renim

    renim Active Member

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    My sister was incapacitated, conscious and could feel the pain while having a caeserian when she lived in the UK.
    They also ignored her very painful cryptosporidium/giardia type infection that was trivially treated with 'antibiotics' back in Australia, 2 years of waking up and crying at night in the UK. Trivial to medicate. neither outcomes would've entered UK's stats.
     
  14. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    Did she also go bankrupt and have to sell her home to pay her medial bills? Oh wait... you said UK not US... never mind....

    Screen Shot 2019-06-25 at 7.13.06 PM.png
     
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  15. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    There you are. The UK: average care, done on the cheap. (And yes, this level of irresponsibility by doctors IS average.)

    Of course, in the US your sister would have had all of the above problems plus more, and would have been charged so much that she would have gone bankrupt. Because it's the US.

    Australia has substantially better than average medical care if I remember the studies correctly....
     
  16. renim

    renim Active Member

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    as an outsider, my view is that the core issue with USA healthcare is that profit is not maximized until there is curtailment. Even in 2007 the USA public healthcare was around 7% of GDP, the UK's public healthcare also around 7% of GDP. there another 9% of gdp spent on private healthcare in USA, vs another 2% in UK.

    but thats a incorrect metric of performance, take my region, top 3 countries for medicine

    upload_2019-6-26_12-58-14.png
    each has widely varying amount of government to total%. Yet each offers far superior value than American health care. Better questions are, Why does Singapore have such a low health to GDP vs USA or UK. Or why do people live longer in Japan vs USA or UK?

    partially the answer is because they have to deal with this The problem with USA health was not solved by increasing the pot of government money available to pay for it. Its a more fundamental problem than that.

    But the issue with NHS UK, aaagh, Where there is competition, there is no progress.
     
  17. renim

    renim Active Member

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    In the UK, she could not get a second opinion, all it took was getting off the plane in Australia, going to a GP and getting a second opinion, then going to a chemist with the script in hand. Trivial.

    In Australia, the anaesthetist has a broader choice of drugs to use. My sister has some natural resistance to the class of drugs that the NHS decreed is the most appropriate (presumably because they are the 'cheapest').

    I can't speak of USA, but i presume people there can get second opinions and tell anaesthetist what not to use.
     
  18. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    Sure... if you have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.... $$$$$$$$$$; But with $$ you can get anything anywhere....

    If you don't have money you get what ever your insurer allows you to get.... which is usually what's cheapest... which usually mean no 2nd opinions :(
     
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  19. renim

    renim Active Member

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    #479 renim, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    here a second opinion is perhaps $100, perhaps free. eitherway that is not $$$
    Australian health system: how it works - myDr.com.au

    Can't do that in UK., can probably do that in USA.

    If I want a GP who likes antibiotics (but doesn't like giving time off from work), I know where to go, If I want a GP who doesn't like antibiotics (but does like giving time off from work) I also where to go. On average, it works great.
     
  20. tentonine

    tentonine Member

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    #480 tentonine, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    A couple of things about UK healthcare:
    - We have private healthcare too*, and at a much more affordable price than the US. $100 sounds about right for an opinion from a private GP, maybe even too high in some places.
    - Unless you are in a small area with only a single GP working at a particular location, often you can request a visit to a different GP at the same location if you want another opinion. At least, that's the way it works for me - I have 7 GPs to choose from. Usually they give me an appointment with whoever is free soonest, but I can request a specific person. On the other hand, a second opinion from a hospital consultant on a more serious problem would be harder to obtain from the NHS, and would require a cooperative GP who agrees that it is necessary.


    * Private healthcare in the UK often doesn't cover serious emergencies, except in limited locations, and it would be unusual to find a private hospital equipped to handle injuries from a major accident. Ambulances that arrive after calling the 999 emergency number will always take people to NHS hospitals. However, non-emergency procedures are widely available in private hospitals across the country for much lower prices than the US. Private GP coverage isn't great in some areas, but it's a small country and most people should be able to find a private GP within say an hour's drive (this is quite a long way by UK standards!).
     
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