Budget 2015 Good News :-)

[politeperson]

Looks like the MS is exempt from the new luxury car tax.

How to beat the new car tax rates Cars

 

[mgboyes]

I'll believe it when I read the draft bill. Until then everything's hearsay (based on a budget that is itself ambiguous and to some extent self-contradictory).

 

[mgboyes]

In fact HMRC's own guide to the tax implications of the budget is pretty clear that the £310 extra applies to all cars.

See p100 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/443822/OOTLAR_2015.pdf

The draft bill is due to be published today so we'll see what that says...

 

[JER]

Yeah, subsequent to the first year rate, you pay standard rate. The £310 luxury car supplement is added to standard rate for five years.

This kind of realignment is inevitable as cleaner vehicles become more popular. Think about what the end game looks like.

Having the rich pay a little more is no bad thing, either.

 

[mgboyes]

Finance bill draft has been published.

As I suspected the £310 charge applies to ALL cars whose RRP is over £40k, including zero emissions vehicles.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers

 

[mgboyes]

The Telegraph have updated their article and added a new list of tables at How will the new car tax prices affect me Cars

 

[martinwinlow]

Having the rich pay a little more is no bad thing, either.

I am not rich but I chose to spend a sizeable chunk of my near-retirement, hard earned cash on a MS. I could have spent it on something with an engine but because I believe in what Tesla is trying to do and that Big Oil is a global pandemic that really should be eradicated, I chose the MS. We should all be encouraging car buyers to do the same thing. Sticking a £300 'stealth tax' on the MS is demonstrating HMGs muddle headedness over their supposed support for ULVs. They really have not got a clue.

I find it very frustrating that other people (post 2017) who feel the same way will be put off at the thought of having to pay tax for their EV when I do not.

I have already written to my MP pointing out the folly of this tax and would recommend everyone else on this forum to do the same. MW

 

[mgboyes]

I am not rich but I chose to spend a sizeable chunk of my near-retirement, hard earned cash on a MS. I could have spent it on something with an engine but because I believe in what Tesla is trying to do and that Big Oil is a global pandemic that really should be eradicated, I chose the MS. We should all be encouraging car buyers to do the same thing. Sticking a £300 'stealth tax' on the MS is demonstrating HMGs muddle headedness over their supposed support for ULVs. They really have not got a clue.

I find it very frustrating that other people (post 2017) who feel the same way will be put off at the thought of having to pay tax for their EV when I do not.

I have already written to my MP pointing out the folly of this tax and would recommend everyone else on this forum to do the same. MW

On balance I think I'm fine with it.

It's an extra tax on premium cars, separate to the primary taxation methodology which is based on emissions.

Today the only long range BEV is the Tesla Model S so you could argue that someone who wants to run a zero emissions car as their main vehicle is "forced" to spend more than £40k even though they would usually choose something less expensive. That's definitely been the case in the US where lots of people are moving from Priuses and the like to a Model S - and sounds like it was similar with you Martin where you decided to do something out of the ordinary (for you) and spend a lot more of your cash than you normally would on a vehicle. But as soon as there's a 200 mile EV on the market for under £40k (Tesla Model 3 or Chevy Bolt or next-gen Nissan Leaf) then that argument goes out of the window and the Model S becomes an unashamedly upmarket car - if you want to drive a zero emissions vehicle and avoid this tax then buy a cheaper car.

 

[ohcomeon]

I'm hoping that by time the government brings this tax in they will have decided it's best to charge the whole five years up front so it is effectively added to the price of the car. Would make much more sense.

 

[martinwinlow]

I get what you are saying - premium car comes with premium costs - including premium contribution to maintaining roads for good of all etc but... you missed my point... which is (deep breath).... HMG want to encourage car buyers to buy low emission vehicles - I want HMG to encourage people to buy EVs (and NOT pretend-ones like hybrids, let alone fuel-cell ones!). Not having to pay tax for an EV was definitely one of the plusses in buying one - even more so in the case of the MS where an equivalent FF vehicle would attract top-whack tax at $800pa - or whatever it is. Ergo, by introducing a tax on the MS, it is putting people off buying one in lieu of a stinky, Big Oil-supporting, FF burning Mercedes/BMW/Range Rover etc.

Actually, I feel a bit swindled by HMG on this. I know I won't have to pay the tax on my current MS and, frankly, it is most unlikely that I will be able to afford another. But for all the people I have spoken to, to try to get them to at least consider an EV when they are next in the market for a change of car, I feel like I need to let them know that the goal posts have moved.

Anyway, I'm still not convinced the truth is yet known as to whether the MS will attract this tax or not. It's a typically dreadfully worded bit of legislation. Hopefully my MP will get to the bottom of it and respond reasonably swiftly. However, I'm not holding my breath for either eventuality! MW

 

[mgboyes]

Anyway, I'm still not convinced the truth is yet known as to whether the MS will attract this tax or not. It's a typically dreadfully worded bit of legislation. Hopefully my MP will get to the bottom of it and respond reasonably swiftly. However, I'm not holding my breath for either eventuality! MW

Really? I think it's very clear. It has two entirely separate sub-sections, one stating the situation for cars >£40k and >0g/km, and another stating the situation for cars >£40k and =0g/km.

Finance Bills are always horribly hard to read because they have to be written in the form of a list of edits to other existing legislation otherwise there's a significant risk that you end up with contradictions between the previous and new acts.

 

[smac]

On balance I think I'm fine with it.

It's an extra tax on premium cars, separate to the primary taxation methodology which is based on emissions.

Today the only long range BEV is the Tesla Model S so you could argue that someone who wants to run a zero emissions car as their main vehicle is "forced" to spend more than £40k even though they would usually choose something less expensive. That's definitely been the case in the US where lots of people are moving from Priuses and the like to a Model S - and sounds like it was similar with you Martin where you decided to do something out of the ordinary (for you) and spend a lot more of your cash than you normally would on a vehicle. But as soon as there's a 200 mile EV on the market for under £40k (Tesla Model 3 or Chevy Bolt or next-gen Nissan Leaf) then that argument goes out of the window and the Model S becomes an unashamedly upmarket car - if you want to drive a zero emissions vehicle and avoid this tax then buy a cheaper car.

Completely agree.

This is politically motivated anyway (but so is all tax). For the truly rich this is a drop in the ocean, but for political spin of "taxing" luxury, it's great political capital for the largest segment of the voting public who perceive this as for the benefit of the working class family and sticking it to the fat cats.

My biggest issue is the threshold £40k is hardly plutocratic luxury, it's decidedly middle class. Tick some boxes on a Model 3 and bingo. Heck you could spend £40k on a Golf, and a nice 5 series would easily see £40k.

No doubt with such a linear division in taxation treatment we will see cars effectively capped at £40k, a gap then £50k+. (Much like how stamp duty impacted housing price bands)

 

[martinwinlow]

mgboyes - Yes, that looks pretty definitive - unless Tesla can figure out a way to get the MS to 'consume' CO2 in some way in which case it would drop out of the legislation because it would no longer merely have an emissions figure of 0g/km but -Xg/km!

But as for emac and everyone else - you are still missing my point. And I can't be bothered to say it all over again. MW