Build quality: alignment of trunk

[AnOutsider]

Weren't these still hand built back then? I agree though, I'd like to see those lines back (heck, I even notice the body lines less)

 

[contaygious]

Yeah looks great and the lines on the side are more pronounced, hope they can pull it off!

 

[MikeK]

In fairness to Tesla, look how far we've come since the early Beta prototypes:

(This was at the Model X & Signature Colors event at Santana Row in March.)

 

[MikeK]

I made an inquiry with one of the Tesla product specialists, and passed along some screen shots from that Santana row video, along with my photos from Palo Alto, and asked whether the customer-delivered cars will be more like the Santana Row video, or more like the Get Amped cars. Here's his response, which he said I was welcome to share:

I certainly understand your concerns and I have followed up with several people who have been around the manufacturing process. The cars you saw at the Get Amped Tour were pre-production vehicles, and they are no longer considered prototypes because the overall design of Model S has been finalized. While they did come off of the production line the pre-production means they are not cars that would be suitable for delivery to our customers as we are continuing to refine the little things about the car to make it meet the "perfection" standard that Elon talked about. The fit and finish of the cars is an aspect that our manufacturing team is adamantly working to perfect, and the cars have come a long way since the cars you saw at the Gat Amped tour. I hope this helps you make your decision!

 

[contaygious]

Thanks for checking! Crossing my fingers...

 

[theganjaguru]

Greetings. Longtime reader.

My 2cents... After glancing through this thread no one has measured the tolerance of the alleged gaps between panels with any scientific instrument, or even a piece of paper for that matter.... Everything I've read thus far is subjective to interpretations as you are all relying on your easily fooled eyes.... What you guys are noticing as "poor alignment" is most likely an optical illusion.. I was talking with an older friend last night about this and he explained a similar thing with the Ford Edsel. While the panels of the car were engineered within acceptable tolerances, many critics of the vehicle "thought" it was poorly put together due to optical illusions... I think that is what people are seeing.. I think it would be best to hold off assumptions of build quality until someone can actually measure tolerances with a real measuring device...

 

[Robert.Boston]

I think it would be best to hold off assumptions of build quality until someone can actually measure tolerances with a real measuring device...

Good advice. Maybe bring a largish (~8mm) ball bearing and replicate the original Lexus commercials, rolling the bearing down the seams (which would only work for the trunk and frunk seams, but that's where we have the greatest concerns).

 

[cinergi]

Some of the complaints *absolutely* are optical illusions. Some are not. Both types are quite visible in the videos of me walking around the cars during the NY event.

 

[MikeK]

Greetings. Longtime reader.

My 2cents... After glancing through this thread no one has measured the tolerance of the alleged gaps between panels with any scientific instrument, or even a piece of paper for that matter.... Everything I've read thus far is subjective to interpretations as you are all relying on your easily fooled eyes.... What you guys are noticing as "poor alignment" is most likely an optical illusion.. I was talking with an older friend last night about this and he explained a similar thing with the Ford Edsel. While the panels of the car were engineered within acceptable tolerances, many critics of the vehicle "thought" it was poorly put together due to optical illusions... I think that is what people are seeing.. I think it would be best to hold off assumptions of build quality until someone can actually measure tolerances with a real measuring device...

I agree with you that some of what we've seen is optical illusion. For example, the somewhat odd-looking gap on the sloped section of the C pillar has a lot to do with the way that surface twists from a primarily vertical orientation to a largely horizontal orientation. That means that the gap itself is seen "face on" on the sloped section, but "edge on" on the back section, when viewing the car from the side. Fair enough.

But I would encourage you to view that Santana Row video, and then look at any photo of a white Model S from any of the Get Amped events. It's trivially easy to see without any measuring equipment whatsoever that the gaps around the trunk are substantially larger on the Get Amped cars than in the video. That's not an optical illusion. At all.

As well, if you look at this photo I took in Palo Alto, under the left tail light, you can clearly see that the panel isn't flush to the adjacent panel (look at the shadow). That's not an optical illusion. It's a real alignment problem, although I think the angle of the light is accentuating it. That problem is one that I'm certain they'll fix, so it doesn't really concern me -- my point is just that not everything that is being discussed here is so subjective that we need measuring tools to be sure it's real.

 

[MikeK]

Some of the complaints *absolutely* are optical illusions. Some are not. Both types are quite visible in the videos of me walking around the cars during the NY event.

One thing to add: I think some of the optical illusions are likely to improve when the real issues are addressed. For example, if the gap around the trunk were a bit tighter, I suspect that the illusion on the sloping C pillar will be diminished, since the appearance of the "face on" gap will be closer to the appearance of the "edge on" gap.

 

[Tommy]

And regarding optical illusions: No matter what an instrument says regarding tolerances/alignment, it is the eye that must be satisfied. Case in point, if you have ever wall papered, you learn pretty quickly to lay the vertical lines parallel to door jams irregardless if the door jams are perfectly plum or not. To do otherwise,(perfectly plum wall paper, slightly out of plum door jam), the eye will quickly see the job as poorly done.

 

[cinergi]

Agreed on last two posts -- but I will say that photos and videos make the illusions look worse than in person. Of course, there's still a perception issue if the photos look bad (which people are using to evaluate the car).

 

[brianman]

If it looks great IRL and bad in photos, then just retouch the photos and call it a day. Works for models...

 

[MikeK]

Elon's most recent tweet photo has me a bit anxious. Note the two silver cars:

I saw this Lexus randomly on the road last night. I was hoping we'd be more like the trunk gaps on this car by now:

 

[hvb]

Are you worried that the gaps are too large or are misaligned? They look fine to me.

 

[onlinespending]

Are you worried that the gaps are too large or are misaligned? They look fine to me.

I'd say too large. Notice how much more noticeable they are vs. the door gaps? Of course the angle isn't entirely fair, since it'd be harder to recognize the door gaps anyways. But they could certainly be improved upon.

 

[MikeK]

Are you worried that the gaps are too large or are misaligned? They look fine to me.

The gap appears to me to be disproportionately large. Certainly on some of the earlier Get Amped cars, it was much larger than any of the other door or hood gaps on the car.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

I don't claim to be an expert in any way, but it seems to me that the photo of the Lexus is kind of a lot more high quality than the photo of those Teslas. Couldn't it in this case with regards to the photo of the Teslas, just be an unfortunate combination of blurredness/lack of focus and also perhaps a less than optimal jpeg (or what not) algorithm?

I'm not trying to suggest that the gap* around the trunk of those Teslas are as small as the gap* of that Lexus, just that the difference perhaps isn't as big as these two photos seem to suggest.

*When I originally posted I used the word alignment which probably was a mistake on my part. Sorry for that. (I'm only Swedish)... :redface:

 

[MikeK]

I don't think it's the photographic process. It may, however, be a particularly unflattering angle. I notice in reviewing my own videos from the recent Palo Alto event that a rear-quarter view seems to make the gap look its largest. Here are two shots of the same car to illustrate. I think on the angle, you maybe see more deeply into the seam, so it looks darker. These two pictures aren't the best, and you really sort of have to see them full size rather than the scaled-down version inlined here.

 

[Krugerrand]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. There are three shapings in the Tesla hatch vs a straight Lexus trunk. The gapping is consistent through the entire seam, which is the important point. If you prefer tight gapping, then go ahead and buy the shapeless rear-ended Lexus.