Build quality

[jboy210]

Thanks! In terms of build quality, makes me feel a lot better and I appreciate it.

In terms of communication from Tesla during the delivery process, I was just hoping for more than “don’t make any holiday plans between Dec 15 and Dec 31. We will let you know when the car is ready - and if you can’t get it within two days you are out of luck!”
Then, when they do decide my delivery day will be December 28 and that the car will leave the factory on December 26, Tesla waits until 5 pm on Dec 27 to say sorry your car never left and is still in Fremont. Hope you didn’t make other plans because we need to reschedule. Can’t make the new date? Sucks to be you.
In particular I know of one person who specifically said they could be available any day but Dec 31, Tesla’s response? Sorry your car will be here dec 31. No you can’t pick it up Jan 1 because we will sell it before you get here for the last minute sale.
You would think Tesla could have notified all of us a month ago of the exact date we would be getting the car so that plans could be made: it’s simple inventory management.
And yes, BMW was able to tell me minute by minute where my car was on its custom order from Germany - along with updates of when it was on the ship l, when it was in the Panama Canal, and when it got to the delivery inspection center and to the dealer. Never had a question about when I’d be picking it up.

You did much better than my BMW X3. Mine was supposed to come in in 2 months. It took 4 months. When the sales guy called me to tell me he said they swapped with SUV orders. This was in 2015 when the started making the new body style Xs.

Did you order a sedan?

 

[anon125110]

#3 - It's a car. An average, midsized sedan. Many folks here treat it as if it's a hand built one-of-a-kind Rolls Royce; it isn't. It's a mass-produced car; no more, no less. Gotta keep that in mind. Be realistic in your asks, and they will be realistic in kind. Be excessive, and the pushback will be so as well.
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Have to agree with this. Model 3 specifically (at least here in So Cal) has replaced the Civic as the car college students get upon graduation. I am heavily involved with the University of California and Model 3 became akin to Apple products among students, they graduate, get a job, and apartment and a Model 3. I see more Model 3's on the roads these days than Toyotas.

 

[holmgang]

The average selling price of a Model 3 is nowhere close that of a Civic, or an average midsized car (per KBB), so let's not use that excuse. For substandard finishing

 

[jpfive]

Please reassure me that I’m not making a huge mistake by buying a Tesla Model 3.

If all the delivery and order issues haven’t been enough along with the total lack of any communication from Tesla during the process since clicking order....

I Keep seeing stories while waiting for my delivery about alignment issues, paint issues, hoses not connected, etc. I get that Tesla is trying to pump out lots of cars, but getting it right the first time is - long term - much cheaper than just screwing up so many things on so many cars.
If Honda, Ford and others can build cars with less defects per 100 vehicles, why is Tesla having so many issues in this area? From what I have read Tesla has been doing better lately but still has one of the highest defect rates of any vehicle manufacturer. Scares me for my own delivery that is happening this weekend. I shouldn’t have to go over the car with a fine tooth comb - my BMW for example just required a brief cursory look to know it was built properly. Didn’t need to worry about steering wheels being off center or USB plugs not working.

I keep hearing its end of quarter rushes that cause these problems. But none of these issues would pass a factory inspection even on a Honda Fit or similar car that costs 1/4 of a Tesla.

is Tesla not inspecting cars at critical build points? Are US workers less able to do quality work than European or Asian market workers? Or is Tesla less automated than our manufacturers? Or what causes all these problems that the company hasn’t been able to solve in the past few years?

One would think this would be the top priority of Tesla to fix since it causes more warranty service visits which causes a lot of money for the company.

Also, when I buy a car like a BMW or even a Honda and there are paint issues or similar there are no issues with getting a due bill to get the problem fixed. But Tesla from what I’ve read is very reluctant to fix any cosmetic issues. Is that correct? How can that build a loyal fan base? Even if the car drives great, if it squeaks and rattles and has paint chips all over people won’t remain happy. So either it’s happening less than reported here, or ????

I keep hearing “just wait till you drive it - you’ll forget all about the scratches and other issues”. But I can’t imagine anyone would be so blind to major defects on a brand new car where the manufacturer is not willing to help at all.

There were no issues with my car on delivery. As far as comments have run on the forum, consider this. How much good news do you see on the front page of newspapers and news magazines? Likewise, people who are disappointed are much more likely to share their feelings. We had a rule when I was working in retail that a dissatisfied customer tells everybody they know. Satisfied customers not so loquacious... Enjoy looking forward to your car and to a fine ownership experience.

 

[anon125110]

The average selling price of a Model 3 is nowhere close that of a Civic, or an average midsized car (per KBB), so let's not use that excuse. For substandard finishing

I never argued that it was. I was saying that it is extremely "fashionable" these days. Model 3 is extremely fashionable right now and is becoming as common as Civics once were. Price is actually a very small factor for a bachelor graduating college. These are not the kind of people that get an Android phone because Apple's phone is too expensive. These are the kind of people that get Air Pods for $200, when you can get much better sounding BOSE for the same price. You can put nothing down and pay $700 a month for a few years straight out of college. Doesnt seem much when your rent is $3k and you dont have to support a family. At 35k for cheapest Model 3, its extremely affordable. This isnt a 80K Lexus/Mercedes or 100k Model S/X.

 

[anon125110]

The average selling price of a Model 3 is nowhere close that of a Civic, or an average midsized car (per KBB), so let's not use that excuse. For substandard finishing

Also, just to clarify. I believe there is no excuse for substandard finishing. I was just agreeing with the other person that this is just a car, its not some sort of one of a kind idol that should be worshiped. Just like any other car its going to get dinged in parking lots within first few weeks. It will be curbed etc...

Until Tesla produces more cars than they can sell I expect quality to be subpart. Reason #1, its an American car, American cars have been crap for 30+ years, Tesla is completely changing that image (and as a patriotic American I love this, and is one of the main reason I got one). But they cant just go from crap manufacturing in the US to complete opposite that fast. Sure, they brought up their own manufacturing and processes from the ground up, but people are still the same. And it certainly doesnt help that they cant meet demand. So corners are being cut wherever possible.

WIth the crazy scramble at the end of the year to get the federal tax credit I expected quality to go down (less time spent per car during manufacturing). I would also never pick up a car from existing inventory, chances are its a car that was rejected by someone else due on delivery to defects.

 

[holmgang]

I never argued that it was. I was saying that it is extremely "fashionable" these days. Model 3 is extremely fashionable right now and is becoming as common as Civics once were. Price is actually a very small factor for a bachelor graduating college. These are not the kind of people that get an Android phone because Apple's phone is too expensive. These are the kind of people that get Air Pods for $200, when you can get much better sounding BOSE for the same price. You can put nothing down and pay $700 a month for a few years straight out of college. Doesnt seem much when your rent is $3k and you dont have to support a family. At 35k for cheapest Model 3, its extremely affordable. This isnt a 80K Lexus/Mercedes or 100k Model S/X.

I don't see how popularity of fashionability lowers the bar for expectation of quality.

The 35k variant is by far the least representative Model 3 sold. The LR and LR Performance is priced higher than the average annual individual salary in probably every market it's sold, so it's not chump change to overlook visual defects and faults.

I wouldn't do it for a 60k volkswagen, or acura

 

[Fredneck]

Also, just to clarify. I believe there is no excuse for substandard finishing. I was just agreeing with the other person that this is just a car, its not some sort of one of a kind idol that should be worshiped. Just like any other car its going to get dinged in parking lots within first few weeks. It will be curbed etc...

True enough. Mine got a huge ding in the door after a few months. It even chipped the clear coat. It's like they make doors with sharp points just so they dig into the next car when a kid gets in or out.

Until Tesla produces more cars than they can sell I expect quality to be subpart. Reason #1, its an American car, American cars have been crap for 30+ years,

I'm crying foul on that one. US cars have been much, much better since the crap days of the 60s and 70s. No more engine parts in the back seat instead of the engine. No more rust outs after just a handful of winters. They learned from the competition and while they may still not be the literal top of the heap, they are very good cars with few differences with the best cars.

Tesla is completely changing that image (and as a patriotic American I love this, and is one of the main reason I got one).

Again, I don't agree. In fact I might just tag your post "disagree" lol. Tesla is all about the flash. They have a good product with tech that no one else can offer at this time. But to talk like they are changing any image of quality is nonsense. They have been rating at the bottom of the heap according to Consumer Reports.

But they cant just go from crap manufacturing in the US to complete opposite that fast. Sure, they brought up their own manufacturing and processes from the ground up, but people are still the same. And it certainly doesnt help that they cant meet demand. So corners are being cut wherever possible.

Yup, not only the demand, but the profit issue is driving them to cut corners in many ways from build quality to customer service to warranty repairs. Who else would try to palm off deterioration of a computer display as "cosmetic" and not under warranty? No, no shining examples here. Too much profit in ignoring problems that mostly are not reported in the press.

WIth the crazy scramble at the end of the year to get the federal tax credit I expected quality to go down (less time spent per car during manufacturing). I would also never pick up a car from existing inventory, chances are its a car that was rejected by someone else due on delivery to defects.

It's not really about the tax credit, it's about the Q4 results. The stock is up big time and if they don't make some profit this quarter as well as meeting their production number for the year, the stock will take a tumble. They don't need a big profit, but they need to stop losing money. The production numbers will be increasing next year as they ship from Shenzhen and the model Y starts being delivered. It won't matter how many they ship if they can't make a profit on them though.

 

[anon125110]

True enough. Mine got a huge ding in the door after a few months. It even chipped the clear coat. It's like they make doors with sharp points just so they dig into the next car when a kid gets in or out.




I'm crying foul on that one. US cars have been much, much better since the crap days of the 60s and 70s. No more engine parts in the back seat instead of the engine. No more rust outs after just a handful of winters. They learned from the competition and while they may still not be the literal top of the heap, they are very good cars with few differences with the best cars.




Again, I don't agree. In fact I might just tag your post "disagree" lol. Tesla is all about the flash. They have a good product with tech that no one else can offer at this time. But to talk like they are changing any image of quality is nonsense. They have been rating at the bottom of the heap according to Consumer Reports.




Yup, not only the demand, but the profit issue is driving them to cut corners in many ways from build quality to customer service to warranty repairs. Who else would try to palm off deterioration of a computer display as "cosmetic" and not under warranty? No, no shining examples here. Too much profit in ignoring problems that mostly are not reported in the press.




It's not really about the tax credit, it's about the Q4 results. The stock is up big time and if they don't make some profit this quarter as well as meeting their production number for the year, the stock will take a tumble. They don't need a big profit, but they need to stop losing money. The production numbers will be increasing next year as they ship from Shenzhen and the model Y starts being delivered. It won't matter how many they ship if they can't make a profit on them though.

Agreed on almost everything you said. But I will stand firm on Tesla turning American car image around. This is the first time since the good ole days of 1960's Ford Shelby where people are clamoring for a US built car. My personal opinion is that they are like Apple but in the car world. Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola dominated the phone market for over a decade, until Apple showed up and showed that American phones can be good as well (yes they are China made, but designed in America, and money goes to American company). I feel Tesla is the same way. They have world class batteries, world class software.

Yes, I certainly agree American cars got better (especially in the last 10 years), but still no one is even close to what Tesla has been doing. And how much of that progress is just a byproduct of better materials/tools becoming available. In other words, cheapest thing today is better than the best thing 20 years ago.

Tesla's cosmetics quality are sub-par in a lot of cases. But I do not see anyone complaining about whats underneath, the tech or software failing. In fact I see nothing but praise for those.

 

[dmurphy]

Agreed on almost everything you said. But I will stand firm on Tesla turning American car image around. This is the first time since the good ole days of 1960's Ford Shelby where people are clamoring for a US built car. My personal opinion is that they are like Apple but in the car world. Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola dominated the phone market for over a decade, until Apple showed up and showed that American phones can be good as well (yes they are China made, but designed in America, and money goes to American company). I feel Tesla is the same way. They have world class batteries, world class software.

Yes, I certainly agree American cars got better (especially in the last 10 years), but still no one is even close to what Tesla has been doing. And how much of that progress is just a byproduct of better materials/tools becoming available. In other words, cheapest thing today is better than the best thing 20 years ago.

Tesla's cosmetics quality are sub-par in a lot of cases. But I do not see anyone complaining about whats underneath, the tech or software failing. In fact I see nothing but praise for those.

Being American designed, built in America by Americans is one of the things I love most about Tesla. How anyone can root against them here baffles my mind.

I've always been the guy who supports American car companies; driven my share of Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, Buicks and Cadillacs. And I've watched their quality steadily increase. In fact, I'd say the quality on my last vehicle - a Cadillac XT5 - was outstanding. But it's no Tesla. I'm willing to put up with a less fancy interior and some creaks and noises for all the amazing, amazing things Tesla gets right. Some day, they'll get the full package, but for now, I want them focused on getting the hard stuff right.

Any good "car guy" can come in and fix the (minor) QC problems... The same is NOT true for getting the powertrain, battery, and software architectures right.

 

[jonquiljo]

Being American designed, built in America by Americans is one of the things I love most about Tesla. How anyone can root against them here baffles my mind.

I've always been the guy who supports American car companies; driven my share of Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, Buicks and Cadillacs. And I've watched their quality steadily increase. In fact, I'd say the quality on my last vehicle - a Cadillac XT5 - was outstanding. But it's no Tesla. I'm willing to put up with a less fancy interior and some creaks and noises for all the amazing, amazing things Tesla gets right. Some day, they'll get the full package, but for now, I want them focused on getting the hard stuff right.

Any good "car guy" can come in and fix the (minor) QC problems... The same is NOT true for getting the powertrain, battery, and software architectures right.

Yes, my recent Tesla purchase is the first American car I have bought since 1971! American cars were always just different versions of the same thing. The Japanese and then the Germans came in and took over for many years. Other than Tesla, no one really shines relative to BMW, Mercedes, Lexus.

Tesla just needs to get the cosmetics right (paint, parts fit) - and improve on their sales model - and they will be a really a top company all around.

 

[OCR1]

Being American designed, built in America by Americans is one of the things I love most about Tesla. How anyone can root against them here baffles my mind.

I've always been the guy who supports American car companies; driven my share of Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, Buicks and Cadillacs. And I've watched their quality steadily increase. In fact, I'd say the quality on my last vehicle - a Cadillac XT5 - was outstanding. But it's no Tesla. I'm willing to put up with a less fancy interior and some creaks and noises for all the amazing, amazing things Tesla gets right. Some day, they'll get the full package, but for now, I want them focused on getting the hard stuff right.

Any good "car guy" can come in and fix the (minor) QC problems... The same is NOT true for getting the powertrain, battery, and software architectures right.

I know a lot of people in Michigan who are rooting for Tesla to fail. They see Tesla taking their jobs away. And they blame Tesla for encouraging GM to move toward EVs since fewer people are required to build them. That was a factor in the recent labor strike.

 

[dmurphy]

I know a lot of people in Michigan who are rooting for Tesla to fail. They see Tesla taking their jobs away. And they blame Tesla for encouraging GM to move toward EVs since fewer people are required to build them. That was a factor in the recent labor strike.

You can cannibalize and reinvent yourself, or wait for someone to do it for you. I’m glad to see GM embracing EVs - they might actually survive. Maybe even thrive; I have a very deep respect for GMs engineering folks - they know how to build some extremely good stuff. The problem is usually in execution - once the beancounters get involved.

I get that factory folks are scared, but man, ya gotta embrace the future. Ask Verizon’s linemen how it went for them, boycotting fiber to protect copper phone lines.

 

[Fredneck]

Agreed on almost everything you said. But I will stand firm on Tesla turning American car image around. This is the first time since the good ole days of 1960's Ford Shelby where people are clamoring for a US built car. My personal opinion is that they are like Apple but in the car world. Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola dominated the phone market for over a decade, until Apple showed up and showed that American phones can be good as well (yes they are China made, but designed in America, and money goes to American company). I feel Tesla is the same way. They have world class batteries, world class software.

Yes, I certainly agree American cars got better (especially in the last 10 years), but still no one is even close to what Tesla has been doing. And how much of that progress is just a byproduct of better materials/tools becoming available. In other words, cheapest thing today is better than the best thing 20 years ago.

Tesla's cosmetics quality are sub-par in a lot of cases. But I do not see anyone complaining about whats underneath, the tech or software failing. In fact I see nothing but praise for those.

I think most people look at the Teslas and just see the "flash". Sure there is a lot of "wow" appeal. But most of what "wows" people is beta, doesn't actually work very well, costs A LOT extra and won't really be ready for prime time for years to come. The fact that their cars are some of the fastest around means not so much to most people who are happy with their current 170 hp cars. I could go on, but to keep this short, most people just want from an EV the same thing they are getting now from their ICE. They simply aren't unhappy with their ICE, but the EV sounds like a better thing if they can get it for the same price and is otherwise as good.

I don't see Tesla is doing any better at that than any one else in the US, or I should say will be doing since there really isn't any competition as yet. Teslas don't do any basic car functions any better than other makers and in fact, mostly they have been doing worse. Where Tesla excels is in providing advanced electronics and drive trains. But I don't believe they will remain so far ahead once the other players are seriously in the game.

Maybe I'm wrong and Tesla will retain a lead in both batteries and drive units. But I see no indication they are crushing anyone with their build quality or other aspects of the car. They have a lot of "wow" and it may not be too long before someone cries out that the emperor has no clothes.

 

[addictedtocars]

Any concern about getting an "end of the quarter" build?

 

[ebmcs03]

Any concern about getting an "end of the quarter" build?

No. Don’t be dumb.

 

[manddarran]

Any concern about getting an "end of the quarter" build?

I dont at this point. At the end of december, maybe. Tesla seems to have a method of where they deliver cars across the globe over a quarter, but at the end of december it appeared to be a mad dash. This just my opinion from my research.

 

[bcpm3p]

Any concern about getting an "end of the quarter" build?

Yea my friends at Tesla HQ says they rush them out end of the quarter sadly...

 

[super20g]

How about a Corona car?

 

[Atoms]

But OP you do know Toyota and Honda when they get their cars off the carrier with issues or damage or even after sitting for weeks in their car lots that get damaged, send those cars off to the body shop too. You just don’t know what they did or what was damaged etc. There is no manufacturer that delivers perfect cars 100% of the time. Tesla doesn’t wholesale their cars to dealerships to sell them for them, unlike let’s say Honda and Toyota.

Here’s how Toyota stood by our Avalon. My car was taken to a Toyota dealership for AC work and they broke some clips on the dash leaving it popping up with visible daylight between the parts. Dealership said the car was too old and if the double stick tape they used didn’t hold, well that’s all they can do about it. Washed hands of it leaving us with a car in worse shape than we took it in. We called Toyota to see if they would help. Know what they said? They have nothing to do with the cars after they leave the factory. Have to work with the dealership. Nice huh? Not the panacea people think. Just don’t think dealerships aren’t fixing cars too.

Tesla will fix these really quick. Probably even mobile service.