Building Electrification

[nwdiver]

I know there are several threads discussing components of Building Electrification but I was a bit surprised we don't have a general thread for it.

There was a news story about the aftermath of the Marshall fire near Denver that was a bit surprising. Xcel was donating thousands of electric space heaters. Which might seem a bit odd as how are you supposed to use a space heater if the power is out. Turns out that electricity has been restored to almost all customers but there are still ~13,000 without gas service. Thousands of people have homes with electricity but no real way to heat them. So even the resiliency argument in favor of a gas connection falls apart.

Replacing a gas burning water heater or furnace with a heat pump is a 'no brainer'. 10 years ago many heat pumps struggled in cold weather and gas could be justified since it required so much electricity to provide a comparable amount of heat. That's no longer true. Building a new home with a gas connection in 2022 and beyond is absolutely insane. We need to push harder to stop this nonsense. Hopefully the ~1k homes built to replace those lost are all fully electric.

 

[nwdiver]

'US putting together 'global' strategy to increase gas production if Russia invades Ukraine, officials say'​

A penny saved is a penny earned... or A BTU of gas not burned is a BTU of gas produced.

 

[Ampster]

To me one of the benefits of self reliance on a macro level is so that a country is not dependent on others for vital resources. My micro level philosophy is shaped by my strong memory of the affects of the Arab oil embargo in the mid 1970's. Many years later I read historical opinions that the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor and the Phillipines was because the Japanese needed access to the oil resources in Indonesia which were blocked by the US Navy. Similarly the German invasion of Russia was influenced by the hope that the Germans could get access to the oil resources in the Caucasus region.
I do agree that the best payback is conservation but that needs a long term strategy which requires vision.

 

[iPlug]

 

[nwdiver]

I do agree that the best payback is conservation but that needs a long term strategy which requires vision.

I was at Lowe's yesterday and it struck me that we're really not even trying. There wasn't a single heat pump water heater in the store.... when that should really be the ONLY legal option in this area. It's beyond insane to buy a gas or resistance electric water heater in a region that never sees 10F. The price of LEDs plummeted when they scaled after micro-heaters were banned. The same effect would likely happen with heat pumps.

 

[Big Earl]

Great thread. I happen run three 50,000 - 60,000 square foot event centers that were all built in different decades - 1990, 2001 and 2015.

The older buildings both use conventional gas boilers for heat, typical chillers for cooling and hydronic loops with fan coil units. The oldest building got a high efficiency chiller upgrade a few years ago (at my recommendation) but still uses the original 80% efficiency boilers.

The new building uses a slick hybrid geothermal HVAC system that has water source heat pumps for each space (about 30 units of varying sizes) that share a hydronic loop that runs to an evaporative cooling tower for cooling, gas boilers for cold weather heating, and a geothermal loop to boost efficiency in the bulk of the operating range.

I don't have energy statistics handy and the buildings are so different that they would be difficult to compare even if I did have that information.

Carrier and others are making air-source and water source heat pump units up to 1,000 tons of capacity for commercial buildings. Scroll down through this list here: Commercial Chillers & Heat Pumps | Carrier Building Solutions Asia

IMO, a large central heat pump/chiller to replace a combination of conventional chillers and conventional boilers is superior to how my 2015 building is with its dozens of small heat pump units. Central plants reduce complexity and repair costs - our maintenance guys are almost always fixing one of the heat pumps and the building is still very young. Complex systems also require very competent and attentive programmers and operators to maximize system efficiency. All of that said, properly functioning, our 2015 building is likely our most efficient in terms of energy consumption for HVAC.

 

[iPlug]

I was at Lowe's yesterday and it struck me that we're really not even trying. There wasn't a single heat pump water heater in the store.... when that should really be the ONLY legal option in this area. It's beyond insane to buy a gas or resistance electric water heater in a region that never sees 10F. The price of LEDs plummeted when they scaled after micro-heaters were banned. The same effect would likely happen with heat pumps.

Suspect this is a relatively shorter term supply issue and if so may catch up in production in 1-2 years.

Many more municipalities now offering incentives for HPWHs, such as in neighboring Roseville here now offering $3000 to go NG-> HPWH. One of my colleagues just did this and when was in the process of getting quotes, it indeed appeared supply was tight and manufacturers and retailers were wanting a big piece of those incentives and capitalized on limited inventory with price hikes.

 

[Ampster]

Many more municipalities now offering incentives for HPWHs

Yes, my CCA, Sonoma Clean Power offers incentives. You are also correct that installers are capitalizing on that and it was less expensive for me to source a HPWH from a wholesale supplier and get it delivered for free . Since I was replacing an electric water heater it was a simple replacement that only required the addition of a condensate drain.