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e-FTW
New electron smell
I cannot help but think that the boardrooms at Boeing/ULA/traditional contractors are filled with laughter looking at how SpaceX is going about this.
"A water tank company? LOL"
"Did Elon's children do this? Haha!"
But in one corner of each of those rooms, there has to be one smart person or two that is silently not underestimating SpaceX. And probably revving their resume.
"A water tank company? LOL"
"Did Elon's children do this? Haha!"
But in one corner of each of those rooms, there has to be one smart person or two that is silently not underestimating SpaceX. And probably revving their resume.
favo
P3D+ owner
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P3D+ owner
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P3D+ owner
@elonmusk: “Should be done with first orbital prototype around June”
Wow, that is a crazy fast development cycle. It must be under construction right now in Long Beach, and then will be brought to Boca Chica by barge. But there is no pad to launch it from yet. If it flies next year I will be amazed.
Wow, that is a crazy fast development cycle. It must be under construction right now in Long Beach, and then will be brought to Boca Chica by barge. But there is no pad to launch it from yet. If it flies next year I will be amazed.
They did repair the damage to LC-40 in six months. Which was close to rebuilding the pad. So maybe this year... I can't see them wanting to hold off on launching a prototype as soon as possible.
Nikxice
Active Member
Just a guess, your assumption seems likely, I also think SpaceX is on a path to SSTO. An initial 'all-up' orbital mission would be a huge gamble that doesn't appear necessary. Elon loves to accelerate progress, but for testing purposes orbiting Starship first would seem to be a lot less complicated.
That may be the case, but I think that some of the reporting on the vehicle being built at Boca Chica is causing confusion. This new Teslerati article seems to lay it out properly, but it could have been written more clearly..See SpaceX CEO Elon Musk says first orbital Starship prototype will be done by June
Elon calls the vehicle now being completed at Boca Chica the “Starship test flight rocket”, what this thread is calling the “Starhopper”. An Elon tweet today said “Starship test flight rocket just finished assembly” in Texas.
Suborbital testing is to occur within a few months. The first flights will just be a few meters, and then gradually increase in height, to ultimately go high enough to practice re-entry procedures, but not go to orbit. At that point it’s working life could be over; that could be within a year.
It appears that the Starship (the upper stage for crew and cargo) “prototype” is under construction. Elon’s tweet today said “Should be done with first orbital prototype around June”. That is a different vehicle than the “Startship test flight rocket” or the Starhopper, because he used the word “orbital” to describe that vehicle, whereas he called the vehicle we have recently seen many photos of at Boca Chica the “Starship test flight rocket”.
On Dec 11, 2018, Elon tweeted “...demo Starship is being built now, whereas Super Heavy hardware will start getting built in spring”. By “Super Heavy hardware” he means the first stage booster.
Will the first Starship orbital flight be done without the Super Heavy booster stage? I’m not sure. Maybe. The first Starship “orbital prototype” will of course be unmanned and the cargo and crew section will be just a big empty space with some mass simulators in place, but not the mass of what a Starship bound for Mays would contain. So in theory I think it could reach orbit on a test flight without a booster stage.
That said, the “Dear Moon” flight will require the Super Heavy booster so the complete vehicle (Super Heavy + Starship) test program needs to start as soon as possible.
Exciting times!
Yah, I'm wondering if the orbital test version will be a design intent second stage only that doesn't need a full launch pad. Versus a full stack with launch cradle for the first stage.
They'll need the cradle regardless, bu tin terms of infrastructure needs, the 2nd stage only is potentially easier and still lets them test high speed reentry.
From Twitter:
Chris (Robotbeat):
"You got something to show us in Texas?"
Everyday Astronaut:
"Stainless steel balloon tanks. Heavy metal. Calling it now. Welcome Atlas back Atlas B."
Elon:
"Stainless steel is correct, but different mixture of alloys & new architecture. Unlike Atlas, Starship is buckling stable on launchpad even when unpressurized. While there are some material similarities, Starship is very different from the Atlas design
----
Yup. Actually, the only significant design element in common with early Atlas is stainless steel & we’re using a different alloy mix. I super300 Series Stainless!"
Martin { God of Mars }:
"Who makes that Alloy? SpaceX or supplier?"
Elon:
"For sheet/plate, at supplier made to our spec. For cast, in our Hawthorne foundry."
Muddy Schmuck:
"What is being made in San Pedro now? Will you return to manufacturing in San Pedro after the initial prototype or do you think Texas manufacturing is the way to go?"
Elon:
"We’re building subsections of the Starship Mk I orbital design there.
---
This test hopper is at full body diameter of 9m / 30 ft, just not full height. Super Heavy will be full height & diameter."
Wow, Elon is really going all in on twitter about the Starship!
What does he mean by “stainless steel balloon tanks”? That the Starhopper tanks are stainless steel as well as the skin? Sounds heavy.
Elon is calling the first orbit-capable Starship the “Starship Mk1”. For clarity, I suggest this discussion adopt that nomenclature. At least, until he changes it.
What does he mean by “stainless steel balloon tanks”? That the Starhopper tanks are stainless steel as well as the skin? Sounds heavy.
Elon is calling the first orbit-capable Starship the “Starship Mk1”. For clarity, I suggest this discussion adopt that nomenclature. At least, until he changes it.
FWIW, that was everyday astronaut.
Balloon may refer to needing to stay inflated form being so thin (see collapse video). SpaceX is self supporting.
Sink is part of the tank. Tops and bottoms may to stainless also. Due to strength over temperature, and lack of pressurization system, complete system may not be a huge mass trade off, while being a huge timing/risk gain.
SM-65? Atlas (rocket family) - Wikipedia
@mongo, thanks for your corrections and clarifications, I figured some of those things out and actually edited my post while you were composing yours.
So here’s a new question (unless I missed it already being posted): how does the Starhopper compare in height and proportion (curved section to straight section ratio) to what we know about the Starship Mk1 dimensions?
We know that the diameter is the same, but is Starhopper shorter than Starship Mk1, which I believe is planned to be 55 meters? And are the Starhopper proportions about the same or different?
I can’t find a reliable report on how tall the Starhopper is.
So here’s a new question (unless I missed it already being posted): how does the Starhopper compare in height and proportion (curved section to straight section ratio) to what we know about the Starship Mk1 dimensions?
We know that the diameter is the same, but is Starhopper shorter than Starship Mk1, which I believe is planned to be 55 meters? And are the Starhopper proportions about the same or different?
I can’t find a reliable report on how tall the Starhopper is.
@mongo, thanks for your corrections and clarifications, I figured some of those things out and actually edited my post while you were composing yours.
So here’s a new question (unless I missed it already being posted): how does the Starhopper compare in height and proportion (curved section to straight section ratio) to what we know about the Starship Mk1 dimensions?
We know that the diameter is the same, but is Starhopper shorter than Starship Mk1, which I believe is planned to be 55 meters? And are the Starhopper proportions about the same or different?
I can’t find a reliable report on how tall the Starhopper is.
Same diameter, but shorter.
Elon Musk on Twitter
Edit: no clue on proportions, will be pointier...
Elon Musk on Twitter
Elon: “This test hopper is at full body diameter of 9m / 30 ft, just not full height. Super Heavy will be full height & diameter.”
So we don’t really know how tall the test hopper is. What’s interesting about this tweet is that he is comparing the “test hopper” to the Super Heavy booster, even though the hopper has a tapered top, unlike the booster.
It seems to me that the test hopper is a sub-scale combination of the SH and Starship for testing purposes. It allows SpaceX to test not just hoverslam landings with the new Raptors but also — to a limited degree — orbital re-entries.
But those tests are only preliminary; a full test requires a full scale Super Heavy booster and the “Starship Mk1” vehicle.
The pucker factor for the first FH/Starship Mk1 launch, orbit, and re-entry is going to be off-scale! More exciting than even the first FH launch.
So we don’t really know how tall the test hopper is. What’s interesting about this tweet is that he is comparing the “test hopper” to the Super Heavy booster, even though the hopper has a tapered top, unlike the booster.
It seems to me that the test hopper is a sub-scale combination of the SH and Starship for testing purposes. It allows SpaceX to test not just hoverslam landings with the new Raptors but also — to a limited degree — orbital re-entries.
But those tests are only preliminary; a full test requires a full scale Super Heavy booster and the “Starship Mk1” vehicle.
The pucker factor for the first FH/Starship Mk1 launch, orbit, and re-entry is going to be off-scale!
More exciting than even the first FH launch.Similar threads
