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built in exta mileage with in the battery?

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Move that yellow energy limiter down to 30kWh if it needs to, and let me limp along for that last 1,000 feet tot he charger...
So, you are saying you can not do that now?
Car strikes forward with full power without you demanding it?

News for you: the right pedal is not On/Off switch. It is a 'gradual device' that tells the car how much power you want from it. Press it only a bit and only a bit of power comes out. Press it full and full power comes out. I say magic!
 
I would much rather the car severely limit energy usage (and thus top speed/acceleration) and allow you to use the remaining energy than decide that it can't supply the poer being requested at the moment and simply aborting.

Move that yellow energy limiter down to 30kWh if it needs to, and let me limp along for that last 1,000 feet tot he charger...

Check out this thread in the Dutch part of the forum (with pictures): Accu tot op de bodem leegrijden , that is actually exactly how Tesla implemented it (you see the dashed yellow line come all the way down to 20kW). I'm a bit surprised about what happened to giants2001's car though.
 
WarpedOne-

I was responding to what happened as decribed by giants2001:

giants2001 said:
So literally about 1000ft before the exit and with 4 rated miles shows on the dashboard, my car shutdown. And it was fast (about 30 seconds).

After a long chat and a review of the logs with Tesla, it was determined that the car shut down early because it predicted that it could not sustain the current speed (70mph) with the amount of charge left on the battery (whatever equates to 4 rated miles).

Obviously I understand I can modulate my speed and I know the "pedal on the right is not an on/off switch".

But what that's not what continued to happen despite additional range displayed, as described by the poster.

Please look at context of a conversation (which was even quoted in my response), before the rather snarky reply. Thanks.




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Check out this thread in the Dutch part of the forum (with pictures): Accu tot op de bodem leegrijden , that is actually exactly how Tesla implemented it (you see the dashed yellow line come all the way down to 20kW). I'm a bit surprised about what happened to giants2001's car though.

Understood... I've driven my car down to zero once, and indeed that's correct. I did not drive all the way to shutdown, however. Indeed it's giants2001's experience I was commenting on where it shut down "early", apparently based on demand. That's not cool.
 
But what that's not what continued to happen despite additional range displayed, as described by the poster.
I'll continue to doubt the description is faithful description of what really happened and what Tesla said happened and what was the real reason and when exactly the car really shut down.
To many times to many details get lost in translation driving one to reach wrong conclusions and making silly demands.

Car shutting down completely because "it cannot do 70mph that is demanded from it" is just plain silly explanation.
How does car know what speed is demanded from it? Cruise control? There is that button to shut CC off ...
 
I'll continue to doubt the description is faithful description of what really happened and what Tesla said happened and what was the real reason and when exactly the car really shut down.
To many times to many details get lost in translation driving one to reach wrong conclusions and making silly demands.

Car shutting down completely because "it cannot do 70mph that is demanded from it" is just plain silly explanation.
How does car know what speed is demanded from it? Cruise control? There is that button to shut CC off ...

Feel free to doubt. If so, please address the original information provided.

In the mean time, please don't condescend the the others of us also discussing it, all the while you are ignoring the premise.
 
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One last piece of information. Tesla did pay for the towing, which is not their normal policy if a car runs out of range. [/COLOR]

Has their policy changed? I've heard of multiple people being towed on Tesla's dime for this and have not heard of a policy change. I've even heard this quoted to customers in the stores by sales staff.

Also, can you give a little more info on the details of the shutdown and Tesla's engineering response?

The shutdown doesn't sound like any other I've heard of (Power limit, etc.), or what I've seen driving near 0. Could it be what happened is that under load and low energy a cell in the battery failed, caused the computer to recalculate the amount of energy left in the battery (now instantaneously below 0 and in the shutdown range), and then the system decided that it was time to shut down? That explanation seems like it would fit your description better.

Peter
 
I think a large part of the confusion is the way range is presented. On the dash, even when the "Rated Range" is 0 that doesn't mean that the battery has 0%. That's because rated range is distance based off of 300 kWh usage. If, for example, you average less than 300kWh since the last charge (extreme example you avg 200kWh) you technically will run the "Rated Range" down to 0, but still have Projected range and battery capacity. This is where I think Tesla can improve, the current "Rated Range" should be replaced with the Projected range function (either 15mi or 30mi avg) and the battery should show a percentage indicator related to the battery's capacity.

So for example sake, (numbers are not accurate) 1% battery capacity can = 1mi or 10mi depending on driving style.
 
I think a large part of the confusion is the way range is presented. On the dash, even when the "Rated Range" is 0 that doesn't mean that the battery has 0%. That's because rated range is distance based off of 300 kWh usage. If, for example, you average less than 300kWh since the last charge (extreme example you avg 200kWh) you technically will run the "Rated Range" down to 0, but still have Projected range and battery capacity. This is where I think Tesla can improve, the current "Rated Range" should be replaced with the Projected range function (either 15mi or 30mi avg) and the battery should show a percentage indicator related to the battery's capacity.

So for example sake, (numbers are not accurate) 1% battery capacity can = 1mi or 10mi depending on driving style.

And if you're driving 70 mph uphill, you won't have even that. When you're cutting it close, keep the Energy screen on and check.
 
I did that yesterday. Had three adult passengers for a 248 mile round trip with rolling hills (rolling hills accounted for about 1/3 of the trip). I had a plan B at the 3/4 mark but ended up not having to use it and arrived with 51 miles rated range showing. The App showed 255 after the range charge.

Is this a typo, or a real story? How fast were you going?

I just tried to do a 248 mile trip on my 252 full charge. Going 65 with no climate, VERY weak acceleration, and driving behind a semi (not too close, but enough that there may have been a difference). Only made it 220 miles. Makes me think something is wrong with my car.
 
Is this a typo, or a real story? How fast were you going?

I just tried to do a 248 mile trip on my 252 full charge. Going 65 with no climate, VERY weak acceleration, and driving behind a semi (not too close, but enough that there may have been a difference). Only made it 220 miles. Makes me think something is wrong with my car.

What was your energy usage?

I did it several times. 253 miles from home to destination arriving at 0 miles. Kept the average just below 290 Wh/mile. I ended up using 76.5 kWh. The interesting part is that it amounts to exactly 90% of the 85. So I would say 0 miles means 10% battery capacity left. I only did it once, though. The other times I stopped on the way and charged a little. Much healthier for the battery to not go as low and also gave me some safety buffer. You never know. There could be an accident, a closed road, missed a turn, ... lots of things can make the trip longer.
 
Is this a typo, or a real story? How fast were you going?

It's a real story. Speed varied depending upon whether I was going uphill or downhill from about 55 to 65. I didn't use cruise control, nor did I follow a semi.
Note that when I drove the 2004 Prius, the last full year of driving was 69 mpg over 16,000 miles.

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What was your energy usage?

I didn't take a picture from that trip, but here's the one from October first.

Oct_1_2014_jerry.jpg
 
I think a large part of the confusion is the way range is presented. On the dash, even when the "Rated Range" is 0 that doesn't mean that the battery has 0%. That's because rated range is distance based off of 300 kWh usage. If, for example, you average less than 300kWh since the last charge (extreme example you avg 200kWh) you technically will run the "Rated Range" down to 0, but still have Projected range and battery capacity.

I don't think that's the case at all... the algorithm constantly adjusts the remaining "rated range" based on actual battery capacity times some Wh/m constant (believed to be 300 Wh/m or some say 280 Wh/m). So if you're doing 200 Wh/m for say half the battery capacity, the rated range will be far less than "projected", but they both meet at 0 miles, albeit rated range declines faster than projected range. So zero still means zero.. if you're doing 200 Wh/m, you're not going to end up at zero with a huge buffer because you economized the Wh/m for the entire trip.

Having the dash indicate "projected range" is far more dangerous than how it does it now, because if you're tooling along at 200 Wh/m and projected range goes way up, and you hit some rain or worse, stop and go traffic, your projected range is going to plummet and leave you stranded.... whereas the way they do it now, it's much more constant based on the average Wh/m (300 or 280).
 
Wow, I've never been able to achieve even a one to one rated mile usage on a highway trip. Granted I've never set the cruise below 65, but even at 65 I was hoping to get the rated miles.

Do you have an S? I've always wondered if the P's just use more energy, even with the same driving behavior.
 
I understand what Tesla says on the matter. Just trying to figure out why I can't get the range that others frequently report.
FWIW, it took me two years before I achieved my first 60 mpg tank on the 2004 Prius (at the end a 75 mpg tank was common). Some of that was new car break-in. Some was that no one really knew how to drive the Prius efficiently. There were many hypothesis proposed--a number of which were discarded as time went on, and it took a while before everyone accepted how the Prius actually worked. Basically it comes down to checking your tire pressures regularly and practice, practice, practice. Terrain and climate will also have a large effect.

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According to Tesla the standard and the P version are exactly the same in terms of energy usage and efficiency. The max power is just different.

It also assumes that both are driven exactly the same and have the same tires. I doubt that the same driving style happens much in the real world.
 
So I had my first experience yesterday with running out of range. headed north to Albany SC into a severe headwind with a 40 mile buffer. 200 mile range (60 kW Model S) and 161 miles to go. Usage was average around 341 w/mi due to headwinds average 25 to 30 miles with gusts up to 45 mph. Crappy day for a road trip in the Model S. Did find a few cars to draft for about 50 miles, which got me within 6 miles to go when I now had 0 range. The Charge Now came up on the range (wasn't taking photos as I was quite nervous now) and the yellow bars on the kW side of the speedometer were now around 60 k limiting power. Amazingly, I was able to drive 6 miles beyond zero to the Albany SC.

Not going to do that again. But I can confirm that I drove six miles beyond zero. I drove around 45 to 50 mph for the last ten miles (+4 to -6), very conservatively not pushing the car or letting the accelerator draw hit the yellow bar on the kW scale.

When I pulled in to the SC stall, said a quiet thank you and saw that I had used 54.8 kw of charge on the battery. Don't know what is left behind so you don't brick the 60kW battery, but I had started shutting off running lights and radio (of course, I never used the heat the whole way or defrost while driving). Had done everything to minimize the drain on the battery other than driving.

Still am amazed I made it. Definitely need to plan better and check the weather forecast.