apples to oranges. this would be similar to having bought a stock option, not the actual stock. we were given the option to buy it now for $3k or add it later for $5k. they can't go back and then say "whoops, sorry, it's now $15k." they would have sold you the car under false pretenses in the first place if they tried to do that.
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Bummer for those who paid for self drive.
- Thread starter Hitman007
- Start date
apples to oranges. this would be similar to having bought a stock option, not the actual stock. we were given the option to buy it now for $3k or add it later for $5k. they can't go back and then say "whoops, sorry, it's now $15k." they would have sold you the car under false pretenses in the first place if they tried to do that.
then why have they always honored the price? people who didn't buy when the add later price was $4k were still able to get it for $4k, even after they raised it by $1000.
I'll say again, this is very different from someone who is ordering now and doesn't have the option to add it...of course they can (and should) charge those people whatever they want. that does not mean they can go back and change the price they agreed to with those of us who have already ordered and/or have our cars already.
the bit about wheels being cheaper at time of purchase is a fallacy, because they didn't say "you can upgrade now at $x or later at $y." the "OR LATER AT $Y" is the controlling part. they didn't have to say that, but they did. had they said "FSD is available for $3k now" with no add later price, i (and i imagine many others) would have bought it for $3k...but that's not what happened. you can't penalize the other party for a decision they made on one set of data by changing the data after the fact.
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Driver Dave
Member
I totally understood that it was a moon shot type of feature, but was happy to buy in and see what happened.
FSD for 3000$ is a bargain that will never happen again. It'll be the most complex feature ever delivered in auto-world, will cost Tesla money every year in terms of being responsible for the cars without driver, and require one to multiple hardware upgrades. And they don't even have an annual fee.
It's like superchargers: Early adopters get great deal that is obviously not scalable economically. Then they adjust / remove that option.
Drawback: You have to wait long for it.
Definitely worth paying not even 2% extra for that. What's the worst thing that could happen? Tesla goes bankrupt, that's bad anyway. Second worst? They fail to deliver and have to refund 3000$.
Either way, I bought it because I'm a technofreak and don't want to not get the latest updates to my car
It's like superchargers: Early adopters get great deal that is obviously not scalable economically. Then they adjust / remove that option.
Drawback: You have to wait long for it.
Definitely worth paying not even 2% extra for that. What's the worst thing that could happen? Tesla goes bankrupt, that's bad anyway. Second worst? They fail to deliver and have to refund 3000$.
Either way, I bought it because I'm a technofreak and don't want to not get the latest updates to my car
So if I bought a car 15 years ago and was offered Navigation for $400 I could go back and ask for it to be added now for $400? I’ll stand by my opinion that you’re out of luck. By all means ask but as a potential juror..you’re outta luck.
Tell that to the people that are still waiting for the promised AP1 features....
FSD is vapoware that has a very high chance to take longer to actually land than most first wave owners will even have the car if it`s possible with the current sensor suite at all......
How anyone who knows Tesla`s track record so far can still believe in software promises from those guys is absolutely beyond me.
One would think that people have seen enough at this point to only buy stuff that's actually available by now.
Chances for refunds are slim to none either way.
Tesla will just release some FSD exclusive mini-features that aren`t worth calling FSD at all and mostly block refunds that way.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...no... because you weren't offered the ability to add it later... ever....for any amount.
So that analogy makes 0 sense.
On the other hand if you are offered, at time of purchase, an extended warranty for X dollars- and they state in writing you can purchase it any time before the standard warranty expires, then sure you CAN go back and add that (in the stated period), and expect to pay only X dollars, for it- even if they have raised the price later for newer buyers.
That's really the only analogy that makes much sense at all with traditional cars since traditional cars don't generally offer adding factory options later at all.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Can you show me in writing where Amazon offered you something today or a specific price later like Tesla did?
you're either attempting to troll or have no clue what you're talking about, or both. either way, no point continuing this discussion.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Please share that offer with us. I suspect that you will realize that what you are talking about is really just a price today and nothing about the price tomorrow.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I totally understood that it was a moon shot type of feature too, and was happy not to buy in, and I can still see what happens.
That's hilarious -- people are so happy they got taken for a ride (pun intended) and even compare it to something that actually exists. I've been "free" supercharging my S from the day I clicked the box to pay for it with my S85 battery when I ordered 4.5 years ago since it didn't come with the S60 battery (you had to pay an extra $2,500 for that "free" supercharging with the 60) yet now it's compared to FSD, something that doesn't even exist? Why not compare it to all the other things that were promised but didn't actually exist, like 691 hp, self-parking and pickup on your own property (with AP1.0), 2.0 can FSD but if it can't we'll retrofit, then 2.5 can, but, oh no, we're retrofitting again...
There's no way the service centers have the ability to retrofit all the FSD paid for cars, as if Tesla would even do it when they can just say regulators won't allow it with current hardware -- read what you agreed to. It's not what people here think it is. People here just make things up as to what they think they are entitled to whereas Tesla's lawyers have caveats to protect every angle, just like we've seen so many times before. Sorry, but I've heard and seen it all before, and I even used to even believe it, was sucked in by the phony FSD video posted so long ago, but now it all seems so silly. Cars will be FSDing before my 3 is over and done with? I just hope it happens before I am over and done with!
The same as "free" supercharging my ass. It's more like the same as the promise to live on Mars. There's the better analogy for you but at least Musk didn't try to sell us tickets in advance for that one, although I'm sure some here would be clinging to those tickets with a huge grin like it was Charlie's golden ticket. If so, and then the sale stopped, I can see people saying "I'm so glad I got in before the cut-off". I'm going to Mars!
When I see someone get in the back of their 3/S/X and it drives them home, my wallet's open to the cost -- whatever it may be -- I will be glad to pay it. Something tells me that's many years away, so I'm sure glad the FSD box remained unchecked when I ordered my 3, and that cash is in my pocket instead.
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I totally understood that it was a moon shot type of feature too, and was happy not to buy in, and I can still see what happens.
That's hilarious -- people are so happy they got taken for a ride (pun intended) and even compare it to something that actually exists. I've been "free" supercharging my S from the day I clicked the box to pay for it with my S85 battery when I ordered 4.5 years ago since it didn't come with the S60 battery (you had to pay an extra $2,500 for that "free" supercharging with the 60) yet now it's compared to FSD, something that doesn't even exist? Why not compare it to all the other things that were promised, like 691 hp, self parking on your own property (with AP1.0), 2.0 can FSD but if it can't we'll retrofit, then 2.5 can, but, oh no, we're retrofitting again...
There's no way the service centers have the ability to retrofit all the FSD paid for cars, as if Tesla would even do it when they can just say regulators won't allow it with current hardware -- read what you agreed to. It's not what people here think it is. Sorry, but I've heard it all before, and I even used to even believe it, was sucked in by the phony FSD video posted so long ago, but now it all seems so silly. Cars will be FSDing before my 3 is over and done with? I just hope it happens before I am over and done with!
The same as "free" supercharging my ass. It's more like the same as the promise to live on Mars. There's the better analogy for you but at least Musk didn't try to sell us tickets in advance for that one, although I'm sure some here would be clinging to those tickets with a huge grin like it was Charlie's golden ticket. If so, and then the sale stopped, I can see people saying "I'm so glad I got in before the cut-off". I'm going to Mars!
When I see someone get in the back of their 3/S/X and it drives them home, my wallet's open to the cost -- whatever it may be -- I will be glad to pay it. Something tells me that's many years away, so I'm sure glad the FSD box remained unchecked when I ordered my 3, and that cash is in my pocket instead.
Why would anyone get in the back, when the front is much more comfortable and safer?
You’re probably not wrong, though. Will I regret buying FSD? Almost certainly. But whatever, it’s not that expensive in the grand scheme of things, especially if it gets me any features that EAP doesn’t get (which I think is now they’ll get out of being sued).
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Because you can't lie down across the front seats. After a few too many, getting in the back, then lying down and passing out (sleeping) until home and in my garage, sure sounds good to me. In fact, it sounds too good to be true, and you know what they say about something that sounds too good to be true... (hint: it's not click the FSD box)...
That's a good enough excuse for me and if I did select FSD that would be the reason since FSD is pie in the sky for the foreseeable future. But then I thought that one through and it seemed gimmicky to me. "Features" of FSD is like telling me someone can be a "little bit" pregnant. It makes no sense language wise, but it makes sense to me as to the reason you bought it, rather than saying like others that it's because Tesla will pay to make their car FSD, when the actual agreement says nothing of the sort, and in fact gives a Tesla a huge out while keeping the money, although that seems unlikely to hold up in Court once the class action lawyers get a hold of this one.
PessimiStick
Member
They absolutely can. Nowhere in your *actual* purchase documentation do they offer the feature in the future for $4k. They have, traditionally, honored the prices people were given at the time of purchase, but only out of goodwill. If the price turns out to be more like $10k, they're going to charge $10k, and there's nothing you will be able to do about it.
i guess we'll see if/when the time comes.
just because it's not in the purchase agreement doesn't mean they didn't offer it to you at a certain price. it's 2018. there's plenty of evidence as to who was offered what at what price when they purchased the car. it's still available in our accounts as a $5k upgrade with no "you must add by this date" attached to it, just as it was when we ordered. it's there even though you can't buy it right now when ordering the car.
my argument is that they have honored the price at time of purchase because they have to, not just out of goodwill. if they suddenly try to tell people who had the option to add later for $5k that it's now $10k or $15k, that's substantially changing the terms of when they bought the car (regardless of whether or not it's in the purchase agreement). you can't go back and penalize one party to the contract based on a completely different set of data from when the contract was agreed to. again, if the choice were $3k now or pay whatever it costs later, that's a completely different choice from buy it now for $3k or later for $5k.
hell, to this point RIGHT NOW they're still advertising the cars as having all the hardware needed to be fully autonomous, even though you can no longer buy the FSD upgrade when ordering. charging anyone to upgrade the hardware alone at this point would be blatant false advertising.
PessimiStick
Member
They wouldn't be doing that, since the contract doesn't even mention FSD at all if you didn't buy it. A solid piece of life advice that applies quite well here: Get it in writing.
it is in writing: it was on the website when we purchased and it's still in our account as available at that price. they very clearly sold the vehicle to those of us who ordered when FSD was still an option as being able to add it later at a set price.
if this ever went before a court because tesla tried to significantly change those terms, i would imagine the court can look at the entirety of the evidence and not just the purchase agreement. they very clearly offered it for $3k now or $5k later (or $4k, depending when you ordered). the argument could be made that the description on the website (and subsequent availability at that price) constitutes an addendum to the purchase agreement or even a separate contract. i'm not a lawyer, but the fact that it's not in the purchase agreement even though it was clearly spelled out in the purchase steps on the website when we ordered (to me anyway) lends itself to ambiguity in the contract, which the court can look at external evidence to resolve.
like i said, i guess we'll see if or when it ever comes to that. also, again, i'm not at all disputing the fact that they can charge whatever the hell they want for people who are ordering now (or ordered after FSD was removed). my argument only applies to those of us who bought when FSD was still an option.
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