I would have thought that a Canadian pirate would have had a better sense of humor.
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cpa
Active Member
What I believe has gone unmentioned is the fact that we are supposed to be the leaders of charging protocol. We have had anywhere from a few months to a few years of Supercharging experience under our belts. Some of us Supercharge frequently and in crowded locations like California, while others charge less frequently in deserted locations. We need to establish proper charging etiquette and protocols not only for Superchargers, but also for destination chargers. We have the Model 3 coming out in droves soon, and it is likely that other manufacturers will start selling longer-range BEVs in a few years.
I equate BEV charging today to party lines from the past. Anywhere from 2-8 homes shared the same line. In California it was a misdemeanor not to yield a party line if a neighbor picked up and announced they had an emergency. Other than that, there were no rules as to length of conversation, eavesdropping, or other behavior. It was expected (implied, perhaps) that people would keep their calls <15 minutes, and that we would not listen in on our neighbor's conversations, even if it were to find out when they were done so we could use the line.
Once charging stalls and locations are abundant and ubiquitous, we can relax our protocols and etiquette, just like once private lines became the norm, we could talk for as long as we wanted without anyone eavesdropping on our calls.
I equate BEV charging today to party lines from the past. Anywhere from 2-8 homes shared the same line. In California it was a misdemeanor not to yield a party line if a neighbor picked up and announced they had an emergency. Other than that, there were no rules as to length of conversation, eavesdropping, or other behavior. It was expected (implied, perhaps) that people would keep their calls <15 minutes, and that we would not listen in on our neighbor's conversations, even if it were to find out when they were done so we could use the line.
Once charging stalls and locations are abundant and ubiquitous, we can relax our protocols and etiquette, just like once private lines became the norm, we could talk for as long as we wanted without anyone eavesdropping on our calls.
an interesting analogy however society's norms today are far from what they were years ago and many people are extremely narcissistic and really don't care about any sort of etiquette, so this is the world we live in. One would think that being forced to wait for a charge would cure someone of such anti social behavior.
Shock-On-T
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But here are some thoughts to consider:
My cellphone is dead.
My cellphone service does not work.
I fell asleep in my car (or room) accidentally while it was charging and failed to move it because I didn't wake up.
My car charged faster than the initial car estimated time shown, and no cell/service/dead.
Restaurant made me do dishes in lieu of payment and it took to long...
Started leaving food place and get bowel attack from rancid grub and need instant throne time.
There may be more accidental overstays that I haven't considered but keep in mind that I very much agree with no parking without charging. I personally have not read the rules to see how much grace time there is, so I am going to do so, right after this post.
Edit: OK I read it. 5 minute grace seems a little short!
My cellphone is dead.
My cellphone service does not work.
I fell asleep in my car (or room) accidentally while it was charging and failed to move it because I didn't wake up.
My car charged faster than the initial car estimated time shown, and no cell/service/dead.
Restaurant made me do dishes in lieu of payment and it took to long...
Started leaving food place and get bowel attack from rancid grub and need instant throne time.
There may be more accidental overstays that I haven't considered but keep in mind that I very much agree with no parking without charging. I personally have not read the rules to see how much grace time there is, so I am going to do so, right after this post.
Edit: OK I read it. 5 minute grace seems a little short!
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If I'm not mistaken, it was originally $0.xx per minute after charging completes with a 5-minute grace period, regardless of how occupied the SpC was. People tweeted to Elon that in some locations, especially hotels overnight, that the SpCs never come close to full, and that the penalty seemed overly severe. He agreed, and it was changed within a week to only charge idle fees if the SpC was > 50% full.
So Zoomer (OP) - You would have been worse off with the original rules. It was never only charge fees if 100%.
IdaX
Member
I essentially agree that you should charge and move, but that can’t cover every situation. Rural hotels with Superchargers are almost begging to be occupied overnight by their location and context.
I really do wonder what Tesla assumes the usage model would be at such Superchargers.
Perhaps as EV charging advances and evolves, there will be different etiquettes.
For example, a Supercharger at an Interstste convenience store would be get in, get out, ASAP. A Supercharger at a movie theater, a rural hotel, or at a sports stadium could imply you can use until the event/sleep is over.
In the specific case of hotels, I bet many will have parking rows with 14-50’s, a very cheap, standard and sufficient option that takes stress off specific spots.
I really do wonder what Tesla assumes the usage model would be at such Superchargers.
Perhaps as EV charging advances and evolves, there will be different etiquettes.
For example, a Supercharger at an Interstste convenience store would be get in, get out, ASAP. A Supercharger at a movie theater, a rural hotel, or at a sports stadium could imply you can use until the event/sleep is over.
In the specific case of hotels, I bet many will have parking rows with 14-50’s, a very cheap, standard and sufficient option that takes stress off specific spots.
I think you misunderstood that comment. It didn't seem to be talking about someone having a certain type of attitude because of where they are from. It's talking about the amount of use the Supercharger stations get in the midwest. These are the ones which have been built larger than currently needed to future-proof them, but they are not half full ever, so it does seem a little ridiculous to have to worry about crowding there.
Idle fees do work as we see in this example. At the same time, it is a double standard to have Supercharger stations that allow general parking. I can park my ICE car there for free but as a Tesla owner you get charged $24 an hour? That's not OK.
I arrived at a Supercharger that was at a Hotel at night and all stalls except one were taken by ICE cars. When I brought it up with the hotel front desk they told me, that's their policy. They let their guest park there and only keep one Supercharger stall open.
I would say Tesla needs to address the ICE parking issue before they punish their clients for the exact same action.
Every hotel that has a Supercharger station should automatically get a few L2 chargers as well. People like to stay at hotels over night! They also like to charge their cars. Hello?!
I arrived at a Supercharger that was at a Hotel at night and all stalls except one were taken by ICE cars. When I brought it up with the hotel front desk they told me, that's their policy. They let their guest park there and only keep one Supercharger stall open.
I would say Tesla needs to address the ICE parking issue before they punish their clients for the exact same action.
Every hotel that has a Supercharger station should automatically get a few L2 chargers as well. People like to stay at hotels over night! They also like to charge their cars. Hello?!
Oh dear, we do not want this thread to devolve into THAT debate. Here is a summary of the arguments so far, so we can get ahead of the game:
PRO 5 minute: You get notifications on your phone well prior to charging being done, plenty of time to wrap up dinner or whatever and get back to your car before getting fees. If you don't have a smartphone or signal, the car displays an estimate that will get you back pretty close to the right time. If you get delayed, just adjust the slider to 100% from your phone and gain another 20 minutes to let the car get to 100%. 5 minutes is plenty of time and doesn't hold up the next guy in line at the SC too long unlike 10 or 15 or X minutes - no one wants to sit in line for 15 minutes looking at empty cars waiting for owners to come back while on a trip.
CON 5 minute: Supercharging time predictions are inaccurate especially if you are sharing a charge spot, so you can get surprised by when your car is done charging. People have kids, etc, so getting the whole family back to a car before its done charging is challenging. Some superchargers are far away from good restaurants so you have to walk a long ways. Not worrying about when your car finished charging and doing fun stuff while you waited like eating at a nice restaurant was part of the carefree Tesla road trip experience that is now gone. Actual lines are rare except at particular superchargers, so Tesla should allow 10, 15 or X minutes grace instead.
I just saved about 10 pages of discussions, so you can thank me later.
I've done that many times.. Always worked well.
Probably 3/4 of the charge before bed and the rest in the AM. Works well, the battery and car are full,warm and ready to go.
I always worry about keeping someone, or being kept from being able to charge.
Perfect summary!. We can turn off the internet now!
those examples are where l2 destination chargers and not SpCs should be used.
this is something that should be reported to tesla, I am fairly certain that their policy is outside of the agreement with tesla to site the SpCs at that location.
While I agree (ish) that most hotels should have destination chargers, it's a bit of magical thinking to think that would solve the problem. If they have 2 destination chargers and 4 people with Teslas are staying the night then someone will make a "rule" that you should supercharge to 90% then use the Level 2, then disconnect and move so someone else can use it...or some such thing.Every hotel that has a Supercharger station should automatically get a few L2 chargers as well. People like to stay at hotels over night! They also like to charge their cars. Hello?!
The thing is that common courtesy and common sense should prevail. If you plug in at 5pm for the night, you probably should move even at a low volume location. If you get there at 1am and are leaving at 6am, it's probably ok to stay plugged in (or at least I believe so). If it's a high volume place, then you maybe should wait to plug in until the volumes decrease if you're not going anywhere anyway, then unplug and move immediately when you have adequate charge.
There is no one 'right' way here and those who are so pedantic to suggest that there is are not really considering all circumstances, such as the one I gave earlier in my example. Had I thought there was any chance my staying plugged in would inconvenience anyone, I would have moved it. I do try to leave my number on the car so someone could call me if absolutely necessary...I didn't see anyone else suggest that. And there's the implied risk of the fine if more than 50% occupied, so that should be incentive for most people to not take the risk if they think there's any chance that could happen. Under the same circumstances, I'll stay plugged in overnight in the future...not because I don't care or am narcissistic, but because it's logical, reasonable and doesn't risk inconveniencing anyone else.
This is when you go to each car and press the button on the handle of the supercharger cable to see if the ring comes back to life as a solid green or pulsing green. Make a video of each solid green and catch the license plate, and VIN while you're at it. Do whatever you want with the video. There used to be an ICE shaming website. Maybe there will be a new "Sleeping at the SC shaming site" just for Tesla owner to encourage one another.. not to appear there.
I'm wondering if Tesla computes 50% occupancy in some way we're not thinking of...
First off, only Tesla knows (unless you try each one yourself) if any of the stalls are off-line (e.g. needs maintenance).
And maybe Tesla uses an algorithm like total available power for the whole site, and uses a meter rate of consumption for the whole site as its measure. And the algorithm uses formulae with charge taper curves taken into account, and makes some logical deduction of how many cars have recently visited and not just "there right now"... You could be pulling up to a completely unoccupied SC site but all the charges in the boxes are still hot from 6 cars that just left... And the nav says 4 out of 8 occupied. Well... maybe the units just have to cool off a bit and a little time will cause the deduced usage to average down... to zero.
I've only ever seen the report of occupancy as an even number like "4 out of 8" never something odd like 3 of 8.
I wonder if this has to do with with the A/B split scheme for stalls.. and Tesla really can't tell by meter sampling alone if that means 1 or 2 cars are there so it just defaults safe and uses "2" if either / or / both sides a numbered stall A/B are occupied. Know what I'm saying?
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