I think the clearest signage would be fees apply at all times (idle, charging) - 2 hour tow away.
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Snake chargers + enhanced summon/ mini-FSD + auto park will fix everything (And be really cool).
Dude, where's my car?
Dude, where's my car?
vraev
Member
I agree. It is a slippery slope about allowing idling/parking in supercharger spots if they are empty. It is just simpler and easier to make it a rule: Move your car after charging is done or be charged idle fees. Even if it is at 2AM in the morning, it is worth in the grand scheme of keeping supercharger access smooth and easy for everyone. We already see the negatives of having regular EVs parked in EV spots at the mall (on the pretext of charging), even though they did not pay anything/and are not charging.
I support a change in the idle fees rules such that they always apply after, lets say 15 minutes after charging is complete. No guesswork as to whether 50% occupied or not - it becomes a simple question of whether or not you're still connected after charging is complete. It's the owners responsibility to monitor the charge by whatever means available to them.
It's absolutely true that the charge rate is not predictable for a variety of factors, and yet the owner is responsible for their car, and every owner is aware that the charge rate varies. If there's no cellphone reception, stay in the vicinity to check on the car regularly. I appreciate that some people have to supercharge late at night while road tripping, but those are the circumstances of your travel, and it's unfair to leave a car overnight - your car may occupy the last spot someone else also roadtripping desperately needs.
Yes it's quite inconvenient to have to ditch family and run back to the car to get it out of its spot once charging is done. I have done so. The wife didn't like it since we had a toddler, but I needed the charge to make the day's plans work. Or to lose sleep late at night to move ones car away when the charging is done. I've done that as well - the charge rate of the hotel HPWC was faster than expected, so I stayed up until it had enough and I moved the car off.
Inconveniences are not sufficient justification to not do the right thing and go out of your way to vacate the spot. Many things in life are inconvenient. I'd really like it if the IRS told me "aww, what's some $$ between friends ? You can pay it if you want." An EV comes with certain inconveniences related to its fueling, that are quite familiar to its owners. One is obligated to bear it themselves as the owner; it's fundamentally not fair to potentially impose an inconvenience upon another person instead, where a question of utilization of a shared resource offered to both, is concerned. Asserting the low probability of the inconvenience to others, is simply a way to convince oneself that such actions are ok.
It's absolutely true that the charge rate is not predictable for a variety of factors, and yet the owner is responsible for their car, and every owner is aware that the charge rate varies. If there's no cellphone reception, stay in the vicinity to check on the car regularly. I appreciate that some people have to supercharge late at night while road tripping, but those are the circumstances of your travel, and it's unfair to leave a car overnight - your car may occupy the last spot someone else also roadtripping desperately needs.
Yes it's quite inconvenient to have to ditch family and run back to the car to get it out of its spot once charging is done. I have done so. The wife didn't like it since we had a toddler, but I needed the charge to make the day's plans work. Or to lose sleep late at night to move ones car away when the charging is done. I've done that as well - the charge rate of the hotel HPWC was faster than expected, so I stayed up until it had enough and I moved the car off.
Inconveniences are not sufficient justification to not do the right thing and go out of your way to vacate the spot. Many things in life are inconvenient. I'd really like it if the IRS told me "aww, what's some $$ between friends ? You can pay it if you want." An EV comes with certain inconveniences related to its fueling, that are quite familiar to its owners. One is obligated to bear it themselves as the owner; it's fundamentally not fair to potentially impose an inconvenience upon another person instead, where a question of utilization of a shared resource offered to both, is concerned. Asserting the low probability of the inconvenience to others, is simply a way to convince oneself that such actions are ok.
It's not always that clear cut. At a hotel with a supercharger, the hotel's policy was to tell guests it is OK to park at the supercharger and only leave one spot open. Many superchargers allow general parking. Some time limited, some not. Why would an ICE be OK to park there but a Tesla owner (who indirectly payed for the Supercharger station) isn't allowed to?
And what happens if the charger suddenly stops? I had that happen recently at a supercharger. I had my phone with me and saw the notification, but
I know I'm playing devil's advocate here. I move my car when done, but it's not always that simple. The idle fees are really a tricky subject at stations where general parking is allowed.
Why doesn't Tesla simply reprogram the chargers, once they reach a full battery, to start sucking the electric out of the battery 10 minutes after battery reaches full level? No need to penalize anyone, saving a lot of follow-up costs, and leaving the car beyond a full charge will result in a less than full charge for violators. The longer the car sits at the charger, after full, the less charge the battery has - a penalty for the owner charging at charger.
Because that is the worst idea ever. They would then hook up to another stall again to get their full charge, and it would create even more crowding at Superchargers, not less.
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
The problem here is that the car is still occupying the stall, even if it now has less charge. This penalizes other owners who cannot use the charger because it's blocked.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. There are those crazy dual use spots which seem like a really dumb idea to me but yes, that is a good point. In a perfect world, charging spots would be just that, not some crazy hybrid of general parking/time limits/etc.
FWIW, I have stayed several times at the hotel in Port Huron, MI with Superchargers and never leave my car there all night even though I am usually the only Tesla there.
cpa
Active Member
Part of this conundrum is that Tesla is complicit due to its agreements with the property owners. To allow general parking for X period of time or between A and B o'clock makes it difficult. And even if the signage clearly indicates "TESLA VEHICLE CHARGING ONLY" some hotel staff or management might preempt this directive when they received complaints from other guests on busy nights.
The other part of this conundrum is the fact that we have acquired decades of life experiences and habits that we suddenly have to rethink. Do I plug in now and wait 45 minutes before going to sleep? Do I plug in after rising and risk that all the spots are taken? Do I change my morning routine because I get up, clean up, check out, and leave immediately? Or do I just plug in and let the chips fall where they may, idle fees or no idle fees, and too bad if the Tesla midnight run caravan blows through at 2:45AM and some folks have to wait.
The other part of this conundrum is the fact that we have acquired decades of life experiences and habits that we suddenly have to rethink. Do I plug in now and wait 45 minutes before going to sleep? Do I plug in after rising and risk that all the spots are taken? Do I change my morning routine because I get up, clean up, check out, and leave immediately? Or do I just plug in and let the chips fall where they may, idle fees or no idle fees, and too bad if the Tesla midnight run caravan blows through at 2:45AM and some folks have to wait.
Seems like hotels and 50A/ 12kWh destination chargers go together, whereas Superchargers are good at restaurants/ rest stops.
Graffi
Member
Hotel Supercharger is not that difficult to get your charge and move the car.
-Plug in when you arrive.
-Check in and take your bags to your room.
-Get settled in.
-Go out for dinner, if you need to drive then unplug and go. If you do not need to drive, then move the car then walk to the restaurant.
-If you need more charge then get up a few minutes early the next morning and move car back to Supercharger, then go back in to the Hotel for their FREE breakfast.
-Make note of the charge status and if you need to move before you check out, then move car, check out, then on your way.
So simple and you did not block the Supercharger overnight.
The reason I do not wish you to stay parked in the Supercharger overnight is because people like me and PLUS EV like to drive throughout the night. It is very relaxing drive, less traffic, no Sun beating down on the car or in your eyes, and the darkness off the sides of the freeway allows me to imagine how beautiful the scenery is. just saying ....
-Plug in when you arrive.
-Check in and take your bags to your room.
-Get settled in.
-Go out for dinner, if you need to drive then unplug and go. If you do not need to drive, then move the car then walk to the restaurant.
-If you need more charge then get up a few minutes early the next morning and move car back to Supercharger, then go back in to the Hotel for their FREE breakfast.
-Make note of the charge status and if you need to move before you check out, then move car, check out, then on your way.
So simple and you did not block the Supercharger overnight.
The reason I do not wish you to stay parked in the Supercharger overnight is because people like me and PLUS EV like to drive throughout the night. It is very relaxing drive, less traffic, no Sun beating down on the car or in your eyes, and the darkness off the sides of the freeway allows me to imagine how beautiful the scenery is. just saying ....
I disagree. I think the current policy is perfectly appropriate. The only problem is when small stations are partially filled, and especially when ICEd. Even the 5min grace period is appropriate. Who wants to wait even 5 min for someone? Try sitting for 5 min outside, staring at nothing, no phone, nobody to talk with, no book to read, etc. Then vote for 10 min, 15 min or more of grace period. My guess is that most people will get really antsy after 1 min!!!!
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I remember indeed years ago we were stranded with a model S at the Awahni hotel in Yosemite (CA) because the owner of another Tesla car had charged and stayed at the spot parked, and we didn't see for the next 2 to 3 hours him returning back at the charge spot (which was limited).
We ended up sleeping there as alternative (but wasn't part of the plan orinally), with 4 people in a room for 2 (as it was the only thing available), booked on the same day (we were very lucky as normally you book this hotel way months in advance).
Conclusion: if you are not charging, you remove your car. period.
Over here the policy in Europe, Belgium is already 0,80 Eurocents (almost 1 dollar) per minute and those are also not very occupied SC's.
We ended up sleeping there as alternative (but wasn't part of the plan orinally), with 4 people in a room for 2 (as it was the only thing available), booked on the same day (we were very lucky as normally you book this hotel way months in advance).
Conclusion: if you are not charging, you remove your car. period.
Over here the policy in Europe, Belgium is already 0,80 Eurocents (almost 1 dollar) per minute and those are also not very occupied SC's.
FYI, I just returned from driving a friend to pick up his new S100D in Portland (delivered 9/30!!!!). When we charged in The Dalles, OR (five station SC), there was a single X upon our arrival. I mentioned the nearby Starbucks to the X driver (about a 20 min walk). We followed a few minutes later, ordered and waited. Starbucks was particularly slow, so I hoofed it back pretty quickly after getting my drink, just to make sure I could unplug before reaching 100%. For my efforts, I was rewarded with the sight of a full supercharger (all in the space of less than an hour). So, fortunately I missed any idle fee. The X driver returned shortly after I did (bigger battery so they probably missed any idle fees as well). A fair warning: These stations can fill up quickly, especially the smaller stations in rural areas or larger stations in urban areas. I also used the SC in Tigard, OR while waiting for my friend's delivery, and found 8 of the 10 stations full. Again, very appropriate to charge idle fees.
IsthataTesl.a?
Member
"Idle fees up to $1.00/min"
It has been this way for some time when busy superchargers are full and a car is still plugged in but not charging.
ralph142
Member
Do I park my ice vehicle at a gas fill up spot overnight or while eating dinner or shopping because it’s more convenient for me than to move it? No. Maybe I should start, lots of gas stations at shopping centers. Costco and Fred Meyer come to mind immediately. I’m sure I’ll make lots of friends Immediately. Probably convince some Tesla owners to sell out and buy fords too. Sarcasm level max.
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