DR61
Member
I wonder however if dealers of currently available plug-in cars will be giving much of a discount if the tax credit repeal happens this year. They will smell desperation of buyers trying to get cars before Jan. 1.
I bought a 2014 Volt before owning a Tesla. I sold it after 1 year of ownership and 20k miles for $8.5k less then what I bought it for. I bought it for 32.5k and sold it for 24k. If you take the tax credit off I only ended up paying $1k for a new car for 1 year. I thought it was a great deal! I live in Oregon where we don't pay sales tax so it's likely I got out better than most would. I assumed the person who bought it didn't want to deal with getting the tax credit and that's why they payed almost new prices (- the tax credit).
I'm sure if the credit is cut we will see prices of used cars rise especially the newer used cars.
I'm sure if the credit is cut we will see prices of used cars rise especially the newer used cars.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2020 3 P19"
I'm not so sure. My 2012 Volt value seemed to drop like a rock. CarMax offered me thousands under trade-in value on it. I ultimately had to sell it private party just to get trade-in value on it when I bought my S.
This flip side of this is that if they lose money quickly, that means you can buy a used one fairly cheap. I sold mine when it was about 4 years old for well under $10K when it was $44K new.
Things are different today. Your 2012 now averages about $13k used, and you can get a new 2017 for $21,400 including all taxes and incentives assuming the $2500 California rebate is gone for good. If not, $19,900.
The Volt had a price drop, and gained EV range, improved acceleration, and better gas economy.
It is the curse of the Early Adopter.
So @McRat , you think getting a new Volt with the fed rebate and selling it 6-12 months later, one wouldn't lose too much money? If that's the case, then it would give us an idea to wait out for the Model 3 D.
BlackM3
Member
Note that most people buying a Chevy Volt can't take advantage of the $7500 tax credit, in may cases they would only get $1K or $2K of benefit from that credit due to their overall income. So a new Volt would cost them $29K and only cost me $23K.
Also note that the PHEV credit in California is $1500 right now, this is what the Volt would get.
Regarding depreciation: I think the 2016 to 2018 Volt looks like a normal car (Chevy Cruze) and the earlier model didn't. So the newer model will hold value longer.
New:
In our state, it's not good to keep a new car for 1 year. There is sales tax on both new cars and used, which is between 7.75% and 10.x% plus DMV fees. While you think used car sales tax is not your problem, it does lower the market price.
But if the Feds cut the $7500 rebate after you buy but before you sell, it will raise the resale price and defray depreciation.
So the unknowns in the equation are the Tax Credit and the Model 3 delivery date, and how Georgia deals with sales taxes.
Used:
Buying a used Volt now, while the $7500 is still in place, could actually show a profit next year if the $7500 vanishes due to higher used Volt prices down the road.
When California removed the state EV credit, used EVs went up.
If you are only paying $1000-$2000 total federal taxes with legitimate tax returns, you should probably not be shopping for new cars.
The California incentive only applies to low-income qualifiers now. A family of 2 cannot make more than $48,720. Income Eligibility
There is a $450 credit from SCE (and I believe PG&E) that applies to both new and used EVs. This is regardless of income and applies to Volts.
BlackM3
Member
After reading your comment I was nervous. But I read the websites, and my take is different. Seems to me that if you earn under under $150K gross income (single) then the Chevy Bolt California rebate is still a full $1500. If you make under $48K then you can get ANOTHER $2000 in the rebate, making the California rebate $3500 for the Volt. This post should probably be in the California section of forum.
So for me if I purchase a new Chevy Volt in the next 8 weeks then I will get $7500 Federal tax credit and $1500 California rebate = $9K.
Funds for all but low-income applications have been depleted:
From the official site:
"
Important Information from the State of California
Funding is appropriated for the rebate project each year in the State Budget. FY 2016-17 funding will be exhausted before FY 2017-18 funds will be appropriated and allocated to the project.
As of June 30, 2017, only qualified lower-income applicants, as described here, will receive rebates. CVRP reserved $8 million for qualified lower-income applicants, thereby prioritizing payments to low- and moderate-income applicants in accordance with program requirements. All other applicants will be placed on a rebate waitlist. All applicants are subject to eligibility requirements, including income caps. Qualified applicants on the rebate waitlist will receive payment if the project receives more funding from the State of California. Learn more about the waitlist and view the latest updates in our FAQ."
But they will send you a booklet from Toyota about their Mirai Hydrogen Car for free! (kidding).
BlackM3
Member
Thanks McRat, but it clearly states that I will be on the waiting list to receive my rebate, since I meet the income cap ($150K for singles). In my experience with other California rebates they got funded later and I got my rebate. So I assume that I will get my $1500 California rebate eventually, maybe even within a few months. Add that to the $7500 federal tax credit and it's a whopping $9K.
Contrary to some of the anecdotes above, Autolist has reported that Volt depreciation is definitely on the high side.
One example is in the chart posted here: Tesla Model S retains its value better than gas-powered cars in its segment, losing only 28% after 50k miles
Autolist has access to lots of data so I trust its conclusions more than one-off experiences.
Also, Volt sales are dropping like a rock this year which doesn’t bode well for future depreciation trends improving.
One example is in the chart posted here: Tesla Model S retains its value better than gas-powered cars in its segment, losing only 28% after 50k miles
Autolist has access to lots of data so I trust its conclusions more than one-off experiences.
Also, Volt sales are dropping like a rock this year which doesn’t bode well for future depreciation trends improving.
Agreed. The Model S depreciates little.
For the Volt though, let's say you get a Volt LT for $30,000 out the door.
After 1 year and 10,000 miles, it depreciates 25%. That's just for 1 year... not the 50k miles that's in the Autolist report.
25% depreciation on a $30k volt = $7,500 = the federal rebate
Yes, they absolutely could fund more rebates. But there are no guarantees. They have been spending money on H2 and low-income neighborhood green businesses mainly. (edit)
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If the main goal is to minimize expenses there may be less risky options. As others have mentioned, selling the car in six months at $22.5K seems optimistic even without the Model 3 coming on the market. You also would lose any sales tax you have to pay (I have not read the whole thread and am not sure what the tax is where you live).
As others have suggested, if you are just going to keep it for a few months an inexpensive used Volt or an inexpensive used BEV may be a safer strategy. But if you prefer a new one and are ok taking the risk of a depreciation hit and paying any tax then if the EV tax credit is repealed it could be an option.
One other thing you might consider is looking into a short-term lease takeover -- could be a good way to take advantage of low lease rates that are available without getting locked into a lease that is longer than you want. This could turn out to be the most affordable option if you find the right deal.
Good luck!
It's pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Go to www.cars.com and search for used cars.
Our shop Volt Premier was $28k OTD loaded (ACC/NAV/DC2/Etc), including all taxes and incentives. Use 92860 and look for used with ~14,000 miles.
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...levance&stkTypId=28881&yrId=30031936&zc=92860
Note: Many 2017's had heavy discounts and $1500 California incentive last year. Hence the low total price.
Go look at early years as well.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
@swhang ,
I bought a Prius Prime in April 2017 with many of the thoughts you mention in the OP. My hedge is helped by the VERY generous Colorado state credit of $5000 that resulted in a final out the door (but before state taxes) cost of $17k and my ability to sell the car out of state --- but even so, in retrospect I'll have to say that it was a so-so decision that I am only still happy with because of my EV/Fuel economy obsession. Here are some of the reasons:
1. More expensive insurance
2. Rapid depreciation
3. Uncertain future market demand
4. Heightened cost of minor wear and tear, risk of substantial damages that reduces the car's market value even after repair
5. Hassle factor in resale
6. Taxes
Unless you can be confident that you will be reasonably sure of being happy with the Volt purchase if you end up keeping it for years, don't buy it today.
I bought a Prius Prime in April 2017 with many of the thoughts you mention in the OP. My hedge is helped by the VERY generous Colorado state credit of $5000 that resulted in a final out the door (but before state taxes) cost of $17k and my ability to sell the car out of state --- but even so, in retrospect I'll have to say that it was a so-so decision that I am only still happy with because of my EV/Fuel economy obsession. Here are some of the reasons:
1. More expensive insurance
2. Rapid depreciation
3. Uncertain future market demand
4. Heightened cost of minor wear and tear, risk of substantial damages that reduces the car's market value even after repair
5. Hassle factor in resale
6. Taxes
Unless you can be confident that you will be reasonably sure of being happy with the Volt purchase if you end up keeping it for years, don't buy it today.
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A lot of commenters on this thread have mentioned the high depreciation of the Volt. However it must be tempered with two very important facts: 1.) A lot don't seem to take into account the various tax credits and rebates when calculating depreciation. When one does this, the depreciation is comparable to most other cars. 2.) The Gen 2 Volt came out two years ago. It is a big improvement in almost every way. (Yeah, no Homelink. But if it is important, it is a trivially easy DIY add-on.) Consequently the value of Gen 1 Volts have dropped a lot. Again, this is no different than other car lines that have moved to a next generation platform.
Our 2016 Volt rolled 28k miles a few days ago. All but around 400 have been pure EV. And much of that 400 was forced due to Fuel Maintenance Mode. Consequently, I've been going 'i3 REx style' - keeping about 3 gallons of gas in the tank. The car has only been back to the dealer for tire rotations and software updates/recalls.
If someone is looking for a bridge until their Model 3 arrives, a used Volt can be a great 'starter kit'.
Our 2016 Volt rolled 28k miles a few days ago. All but around 400 have been pure EV. And much of that 400 was forced due to Fuel Maintenance Mode. Consequently, I've been going 'i3 REx style' - keeping about 3 gallons of gas in the tank. The car has only been back to the dealer for tire rotations and software updates/recalls.
If someone is looking for a bridge until their Model 3 arrives, a used Volt can be a great 'starter kit'.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
That is most of the point: people are tempted by the credits, but this does not work out in practice.
And buying a car in general for a year is a poor idea, exactly because of the accelerated depreciation of any car its first two years.
Moreover though, these *EVs DO depreciate faster than conventional cars even after the credits are taken into account. Not always and not evenly and sometimes in spurts as new technology jumps into the market, but it sure makes for a gamble.
OP put himself in a corner by leasing the LEAF and his attempts to game another short term arrangement is more of the same. It is a difficult game to not get burned; and as he is finding out it is difficult to walk away because so many players do not have the foresight to have an exit strategy.
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