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Buying a P3-, worth it to change from Primacy MXM4 to Pilot Sport A/S 3+?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by UnknownSoldier, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    I know the Primacy MXM4 tires that come with the 18" wheels aren't well-regarded, but where I live it's simply not an option to use the Pilot Sport 4S tires year round. I would have to swap out 2 sets of wheels twice every year. We have occasional snow in the winters which do get down to freezing and also it rains a lot here in case some of you haven't heard. ;)

    So I've looked at the Pilot Sport A/S 3+, these are Michelin's "high performance" all-seasons which I'm sure a lot of people who drive on only summer tires thinks is an a oxymoron. So in terms of driving performance, is there really much of an upgrade from MXM4 to the A/S 3+? Would it really be worth spending the $1,200 to switch out my tires and will I really notice any difference? Thanks.
     
  2. KenF

    KenF Member

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    No. The difference between those all seasons in minimal.

    The only thing that might be worth doing is swapping out the all season tires for Pilot Sport 4S tires during the spring and summer months. That would give you better handling and breaking. If I had a P3 and money were a non-issue, I would swap wheels twice a year. As to whether it is worth the $1200 plus the cost to swap the tires, that is something only you can decide.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. WesC

    WesC Member

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    I have a P3D with areos and the Primacy MXM4 tires. Summer tires are much better (I have some pilot sports on my bmw 335 before)! All season tires allow me to slide around. Summer tires feel planted and instill the confidence you expect in a $60k-$80k vehicle.

    You don't see bmw M3's, Porsche 911's, or corvettes rolling around on all season tires. Yet the P3D is quicker than all of those.

    If you have the money to buy the P3D you have the money to put real tires on it. Get some Pilot Sport 4s tires. I'm looking at putting 245's all round on mine on the stock aero once I figure out the fit.

    Getting them swapped out twice a year is not a bad option. Thats what $200/year? But with all season tires you might as well get the non-performance model 3.
     
  4. navinsiri

    navinsiri Member

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    The tires that come on the 18" wheels are terrible for any spirited driving. The tires on the 19" wheels are much better but still not that good. I run the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on my Model S and they're very good. Excellent grip year round (for an all-season tire) and very quiet. Tread life might not be amazing but you cant have everything
     
  5. TeeEmCee

    TeeEmCee Member

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    I disagree. I had the AS3 on an A4 and I thought they were wonderful all-seasons, with close-enough-to-summer-tires feel (this was some years ago, within a month or two of the AS3 being released - they were the first on the market with a silica-based compound). Never drove them in the snow, but I’d expect them to be better than the Continentals.

    If having two sets of wheels is not desirable, you could drive the Contis this winter or until you can’t stand them any more and then get some Michelin AS.
     
  6. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    I don't want 2 sets of wheels because of how unpredictable the weather and seasons are here. One day it's sunny and 70 degrees, the next day the skies open up and it's pouring rain. Trying to know when to switch wheels would be quite the exercise in weather prediction.

    Anyways, there's a very positive review of the older A/S 3 (non-Plus) tires here:
    https://www.motortrend.com/news/michelin-pilot-sport-as-3-tire-test-307753/
     
  7. ba2002

    ba2002 Member

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    How does the ride noise/comfort on the Pilot 4s compare to the primacies?
     
  8. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    #8 UnknownSoldier, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
    Here is a GREAT video I found comparing your basic tire, improved all-season tire, and then summer ultra-performance tire:


    Really love this video, actually. It shows the the clear line of upgrades, from something like the MXM4, to the A/S 3+, and then to the PS4S for example.

    Edit: for extreme lulz, read the comments where fans of Ford and BMW slug it out over which manufacturer is better. The Subaru fans were zen-like, they knew what they had, but damn the Ford/BMW fans LMAO
     
    • Funny x 1
  9. 22522

    22522 Active Member

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    The 4S will be fine in rain. Temperature is the only issue.

    "Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

    Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
     
    • Like x 1
  10. TeeEmCee

    TeeEmCee Member

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    If you have large temperature swings, in and out of freezing range, then yes, stick with all seasons. If heavy rain is the main concern, then get summer tires. Decent summers are said to evacuate water and stick better than all seasons, due to the specific tread block design.
     
  11. Ingham

    Ingham Member

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    So - Summer tires will take you through spring and fall too in the NE? then good set of snow tires for winter?
     
  12. cab

    cab Member

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    This, to me, is the big question. Tesla already has issues with sound proofing in their cars and the Model 3 is no exception. Road noise, in particular, is an issue (note: grooved concrete freeways are the worst, followed by the heavily chipped asphalt surfaces). If you drive on smooth blacktop, noise is decent on almost any tire.

    The performance tires are often louder and get even moreso as they wear. All cars have this trade-off, but due to the lack of sound blocking in Teslas, that trade-off gets a lot more questionable.

    The late production Model 3 LR I rented on Turo (18" Michelin's with sound absorbing foam) was as loud or louder than my 2013 P85+ (19" Goodyears with sound absorbing foam).
     
  13. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    #13 UnknownSoldier, Aug 27, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
    It happens that at the 18" wheel size, P3- owners can actually choose from all the best Ultra-High Performance All-Season tires. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, the Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus, the Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06, and the Bridgestone Potenza RE980AS are all available for this car!

    So I've watched the video and read this review:
    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=230

    I've also read some of the user reviews of these tires. They are all a little different and focus on different things to some extent!

    It seems the PS A/S 3+ are definitely the loudest of the group, they are the most performance focused and wet/dry summer traction approaches that of summer tires. The tradeoff is that they are definitely considered to be louder, and also that they have a firmer and harsher ride. A number of user reviews I read about the PS A/S 3+ complained about the road noise with a variety of different cars, including some Mercedes and BMW's.

    People seem to like the Pirellis, they are quiet and still perform well but some people also mentioned the Michelins have better grip hands down. The Continentals are the most civilized, with the softest and quietest ride, but the tradeoff is a less crisp steering response. It seems that most people agree the Michelins or the Continentals offer the best snow traction, for those of us who actually want to use our all-season tires in all seasons.

    I'm pleased to see the prices of the tires for our cars are in the $800 range which is pretty nice, compared to the $1200 people were throwing around. They are reasonably priced, but now it comes down to which ones you want.

    Interesting thing I saw while shopping these tires: I noticed that the Michelins are rated at 98V (up to 149 mph) for the 18" wheels on the Model 3, the other manufacturers instead sell their 98W (up to 168 mph) or 98Y (up to 186 mph) versions of tire for this car. The P3- is electronically limited to 145 mph (you have to pay for the P3+ PUP to get 155 mph top speed) so I don't know if there is any real practical difference between the PS A/S 3+ which are 98V rated and the other ones which are 98W/98Y rated because you're not allowed to exceed that speed anyways. I did Google a bit and I found that no one else really knew the difference between the 98V and 98Y rated versions of these tires either, other than you shouldn't exceed their rated top speeds (duh). Does anyone know more about this?

    Edit: Just so you guys know, if you are Costco members, I checked their website and Costco carries the PS A/S 3+ 235/45R18 98V XL tires which Tirerack says are for Model 3. Costco offers sales on Michelin every 3 months and free installation and balancing during those sales plus lifetime rotation and inflation. Just something to think about. ;)

    https://tires.costco.com/Product?ItemNo=1134176&SearchID=235|||45|||18|||3|||en-us
     
    • Informative x 2
  14. 22522

    22522 Active Member

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    Not an expert. At one time Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 had the least drop off from dry to wet traction. This correlates to safety if muscle memory is involved. No good experiences with Michelin all seasons.

    My ranking is 1) Pilot Sport [4S] for summer and 2) DWS for all seasons.

    The soft carcass on the DWS may smear peak loads on snow, which helps traction.
     
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  15. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    if safety is your primary concern than all seasons are right out.... winter tires will handle, grip, and stop significantly better/shorter in wet/frozen conditions, and summer tires will handle, grip, and stop significantly better/shorter in all conditions much above freezing temps.

    All seasons are called that because they suck, in all seasons, compared to dedicated seasonal tires.
     
  16. ba2002

    ba2002 Member

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    I'm getting a P3D- with 18s. Always get winters.

    Would summer tires provide better or at least equivalent ride comfort to the primacy tires? Or just better grip/braking.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Supporting Member

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    Yes, but in some parts of the country, we can transition from summer conditions to winter and back within a few miles. If we go to the mountains/snow in the winter, all-seasons are our only option.
     
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  18. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    .Was that a typo or something?

    Because winter tires would work fine in the winter going to mountains/snow. Better than all seasons in fact.
     
  19. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Supporting Member

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    Not a typo. Because, after skiing, we then have to come back down to near-summer conditions. It’s a nice problem to have, but it means that we can’t run two sets of tires based on the calendar. In recent years, we’ve dealt with 90 degree temperatures in January and plowed through six inches of fresh snow on Memorial Day weekend.
     
  20. Dan_LA

    Dan_LA Member

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    Golde nugget info here, thanks! Anyone know how PS A/S 3+ compares to Primacy MXM4 as range talking, drove 10k miles that tire on the LR RWD model, it's terrible, got worst on the 1st rain, worst handling ever. I LRR is better on MXM4, just wished to know how a PS A/S 3+ would perform on a P3D with PUP.
     

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