Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Buying a Tesla with the intent to sell

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Dramatic? Not at all.

Bonnie, where do you see this posters contact information? His profile lists nothing. No S Nr.

Makes me (too) wonder if he even has a reservation. 1 or 2?

If I were OP, I would never have posted it here, or at a minimum waited to take delivery. And not engaged in such inflammatory dialogue with all of us.

Should make one wonder how many people are holding double or more reservations?

How many are just speculative?

And yet to come out of the woodwork?

And violate the terms and conditions?
 
Yup. Of course, that'd mean an outlay of a cool $20million - probably not the best way to invest big bucks, but it would be an interesting way to become a high profile used car dealer.

What he's doing is actually better what Tesla did - taking your money before telling you just what the car comes with, or the price of the options, or the specs. Someone at The Wall St. Journal thought that was unethical and wrote an article about it. Because this guy is a private party, you cut him less slack? He took a risk on Tesla's solvency and tied up $40K for 3 years.

Anyone willing to burn as much money as RedSignature's asking for a Model S now is new to Tesla and so is not a TMC participant and doesn't care what we-all say. The buzz on this thread will only help RedSignature sell his car, since it'll get more search hits and we'll tell our friends about how much the car we have on order is already worth.

Which is why all the whining surprises me. If RedSignature sells his car for his asking price, doesn't that make our cars instantly more valuable as well? Doesn't that validate what Tesla has built and what the desirability of the car is? And, isn't that what Tesla boosters want?

I hope the car goes for $200K!

Smorgasbord, he's saying he has / had 2 reservations ... $80,000. Our $5,000 is 100% refundable. Not sure about Signatures; are they? Based on your supposition, it sounds like what I consider the PRIMO SCAM, aka Ticketmaster, whom the authorities accused of operating an internal scalping operation ... essentially rigging prices. What if that happened here?

I did not place my reservation in to profit from it. I got it to get a GREAT car.
 
Dramatic? Not at all.

Bonnie, where do you see this posters contact information? His profile lists nothing. No S Nr.

Makes me (too) wonder if he even has a reservation. 1 or 2?

If I were OP, I would never have posted it here, or at a minimum waited to take delivery. And not engaged in such inflammatory dialogue with all of us.

Should make one wonder how many people are holding double or more reservations?

How many are just speculative?

And yet to come out of the woodwork?

And violate the terms and conditions?

His contact information is in the first post of this thread:
If interested, please contact me at [email protected]

How was he inflammatory? The only inflammatory posts I see are from others. I've found him to be far more polite than most of us would have been, given the personal attacks and implications regarding his character. What terms and conditions did he violate?

edit: If this thread is an example of what TMC is to become, I'm embarrassed to be part of it. Absolutely ridiculous.
 
What terms and conditions were violated? His email address is also posted for anyone who wants to discuss an offer

Sorry, it was a question. Don't have my paperwork in front of me, nor is mine an Sig so could be different.

But someone else in this thread mentioned that there would be a clause they were violating so it was a Q. But in that he is selling after delivery, I may have erred nonetheless.

Not had my coffee yet. Thought Bonnie meant in their profile, not right there in front of my eyes in the post! But still lacks res nr. Come clean! :)
 
The Signature reservation is fully refundable only before you lock it in (he has already locked his order it though so for him, it's not refundable). I agree that with just an e-mail address to verify everything, one should enter into this kind of deal very carefully. A third party should hold the money until car delivery is verified to make both parties happy. It's basically the auto equivalent to scalping a ticket (but they usually have the ticket in hand when they scalp the ticket) which some may not like but there is nothing illegal or immoral about it. I do understand smoothoperator's point though.
 
If RedSignature sells his car for his asking price, doesn't that make our cars instantly more valuable as well? Doesn't that validate what Tesla has built and what the desirability of the car is? And, isn't that what Tesla boosters want?I hope the car goes for $200K!
EXACTLY. And that's why Elon would be happy to have it happen as well. I have tried to address some of the general concerns here while trying to ignore some of the over the top immature attacks. I will point out that while I have certainly not violated the terms of this site, calling me a "greedy ****" certainly does violate the terms of this site (check the top of page 3 of this thread if you want to check yourself). Clearly most of you understand and that's great. If you don't, you might want to read Smorgasboard's full post again as he is making the point that actually does affect you unlike the rest of what some of you are complaining about. As for this thread hurting me, I'm not concerned. The person who would buy this car at this premium may be rich but they're not likely stupid. That I'm making a profit will not be news to them. They will simply have decided that the price is worth it to them; exactly as I did when I entered into a contract to buy a $100K car from Tesla knowing they will make a profit from my purchase.
 
I'll probably split most of this stuff off. It's ok to have a conversation on the merits (or demerits) of buying a Model S intending to sell. Even though I don't think it's that big of a deal, I don't want to quash that discussion. If people can't continue discussion in a civil manner (so far it's been hasn't been that civil), however, I'll close it.
 
I could possibly see a scam work in the following manner:

Fake Model S reservation holder advertises car for sale (to be delivered sometime in the future)

Fake Model S reservation Holder requires a non-refundable deposit

Fake Model S reservation Holder gives a bunch of excuses then bails out never to be heard from again

Having an email address that is fabricated just for the purpose of selling a Model S, is a red flag.

Caveat Emptor!
 
[...] If you don't want two cars you could/should have just cancelled the reservation on one so that someone on the Sig wait list could move onto it to buy a sig at the manufacturer's price. I think what you're doing is selfish and greedy and inconsiderate of the Tesla community at large...

Yea, it's capitalist, but it's also greedy. [...] We can still be capitalists and honorable and ethical--this is neither of the latter two.
Maybe it's greedy. Maybe it's selfish. It's not unethical because it's not depriving anybody of food, shelter, medical care, or basic human rights. Hoarding necessities in time of scarcity is unethical. Speculating on luxuries is not.

This country was founded on greed and selfishness. Capitalism rests on the profit motive: Making a profit any way you can, often illegally when you can get away with it. But there's nothing illegal about buying a car to sell it.

Note that he won't be able to claim the $7,500 tax credit, as that is specifically denied if the car is bought in order to sell it, and does not apply to used cars.

Consider the wholesale slaughter of the people who lived here before the Europeans arrived. Consider slavery. Consider the tobacco industry. Consider a health system which denies routine wellness care to the working poor who cannot afford insurance. Consider that if you don't have money you don't eat. Consider day traders who speculate on the stock market, extracting wealth from the system without doing any productive work. Consider bankers who ruin their banks and then walk away with hundreds of millions of dollars and leave the public to bail out the banks.

Consider all that and then tell me that Red is doing something wrong by buying a luxury car that maybe 3% of the population can afford, in the hopes that he can sell it for a profit. And taking the chance that he can't sell it for a profit and ends up taking a loss. I certainly wouldn't buy Red's car. I'd want a proper new car from the factory, and the certainty that everything was in order and the warranty was good and nobody else had driven it. But as long as we live in a Capitalist society, and he's not hurting anyone directly or indirectly, he's doing nothing wrong.

Now, if your argument was that every child born should start out as well off as any other, and all labor, be it field work, garbage collection, or corporate CEO should be paid at the same hourly rate, so that either everybody or nobody could afford to pay $100,000 for a car, than I'd be hard pressed to present a valid argument against you. I know that you work long hard hours, in the noblest of professions, to earn your money; but in N.D. I saw plenty of people working 14 hours a day wielding a hoe under the hot sun, and being paid so little they drove a junker and had no health insurance. As long as we tolerate this, nobody can criticize Red.

Nope. Sorry, Evan. Red is just showing good old American initiative, making an investment in hopes of a profit. He's taking a risk just like the day traders on Wall Street. But unlike them, he'll only be taking money from someone who's willing to hand it over.
 
I could possibly see a scam work in the following manner:

Fake Model S reservation holder advertises car for sale (to be delivered sometime in the future)

Fake Model S reservation Holder requires a non-refundable deposit

Fake Model S reservation Holder gives a bunch of excuses then bails out never to be heard from again

Having an email address that is fabricated just for the purpose of selling a Model S, is a red flag.

Caveat Emptor!

I agree. I used to do flips of this type for all kinds of limited supply electronics in college. At the very least eBay would make a seller that was verified and in good standing post receipt scans or pictures of the pre order documents or the listing would be removed. I know that a contract and lawyers would likely be involved in this size of a transaction, but posting some shred of evidence this guy actually holds the reservation would be helpful, and probably good policy for the site if they want to allow a market for reservations.

Personally, I am leery of the purpose fabricated Gmail account as well.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
The concern I have with those buying a Tesla with the intent to sell is, as in any market, there is a point where an abnormal number of speculators in that market distorts the true market value of the commodity. That distortion caused by speculation ultimately has a bad ending. What is not known in the Model S reservation list is how many that reserved are in reality speculators and intend to take delivery for the sole purpose of selling. A low number, the market can absorb, however at some number x, it's "bad moon rising". Well maybe not that dire, however there are plenty of historical examples of what happens when speculation becomes rampant. Note: I don't consider a "speculator" a positive or negative word in the context of this post; it is the best word I could find to describe the individual buying with the intent to sell, given the particulars of the Model S reservation requirements.
 
The concern I have with those buying a Tesla with the intent to sell is, as in any market, there is a point where an abnormal number of speculators in that market distorts the true market value of the commodity. That distortion caused by speculation ultimately has a bad ending. What is not known in the Model S reservation list is how many that reserved are in reality speculators and intend to take delivery for the sole purpose of selling. A low number, the market can absorb, however at some number x, it's "bad moon rising". Well maybe not that dire, however there are plenty of historical examples of what happens when speculation becomes rampant. Note: I don't consider a "speculator" a positive or negative word in the context of this post; it is the best word I could find to describe the individual buying with the intent to sell, given the particulars of the Model S reservation requirements.

While I agree, I'll be very curious to see what the markup is. If Model S is a hit, I might end up selling only to get a Model X (as my family grows and I'm really excited about the second front motor geared for highway speeds efficiency possibilities)
 
I suspect there are not very many speculators. A Model S reservation isn't like a $20 ticket--especially not a Signature one. I'd be surprised if there are more than two or three.
 
Goodness, this has to be the most overwrought, less than analytical (being charitable there) discussion of a non-issue I have ever seen. There is absolutely nothing wrong in law or ethics with someone putting up a deposit, signing a purchase contract and then offering the item for sale at whatever price the market will bear. And, the market saying that the item is so hot buyers who did not get on the Sig list will pay a premium over the msrp is fantastic for Tesla and the "Tesla community." Such a result is fantastic for the stock price, gives the company greater access to capital to invest and expand(which it will need to ramp manufacturing), and is just plain great marketing for the product. Everyone is a winner. You can be sure Apple LOVES it when brand new iPhone models show up on eBay the day after release at a 50% premium. That guarantees the lines at the stores will be long and enduring. I have Sig 695 and have no intention of selling, but I'd be delighted to learn it appreciated the day I took it home. All other cars suffer huge depreciation the instant they leave the lot. The thing to fear is re-sales at a discount to the msrp in a waiting list situation. The waiting list will clear very quickly in that circumstance, and the stock will/would head south.
 
Last edited:
I've already said, and will repeat, that there's nothing wrong with re-selling the car. However, I'd like to add that I can see several reasons why buying the car from a re-seller could be a mistake. You don't get the tax credit. You have to make really certain that the warranty remains valid. If you don't know and trust the seller, you don't know what might have happened to the car, or been done to the car, before you got it. If you went in for a warranty repair, and they said that something had been done that voids the warranty, you'd be hard pressed to argue, since you would know nothing of the car's history between Tesla and you. You'd probably want to go through escrow, which adds to the cost. There's the issue of trust and deposits: Do you trust the seller with your money as a deposit? Or do you demand that the seller trust you to make good on the agreement to buy? When I bought my house I used a real estate agent and escrow and title insurance, and all that. We're talking about a car worth as much as a house. You'd want to make really sure you're getting a clean title and that the seller is not going to walk away with your deposit money.

In short, the seller is perfectly within his rights, but even at a discount from MSRP I'd be reluctant to buy a "new" $100,000 car from a private party I know nothing about.

In some respects, it's just like buying any used car from a private party. But the price, the fact that it's essentially "new," and the future delivery (as opposed to test drive, buy, drive away) all add complexity.